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Tezuka, Oishi, Ryoma: Manga vs Anime
ETA: I just wanted to add that it's entirely possible that I'm insane for spending so much time over stuff like this. I never did before, for any other fandom, though I did (and still do) re-read the HP books rather a lot, because I liked them.
In which I look at important events in the Prince of Tennis manga and anime, to observe differences in characterization and emphasis for these three characters: Tezuka, Oishi, and Ryoma.
This is not a shipping discussion, although the reason for doing it is to help me write relationship-oriented fic. I ship Tezuka/Oishi only in manga canon and Tezuka/Ryoma only in anime canon. So I needed to be aware of the differences, especially in characterization.
This is fairly rough, part summary and part commentary. I meant to tighten it before posting, but decided it was too big a job; I would rather spend the time writing fic, not editing characterization notes. So, it's long. But I hope it will be useful. Any and all comments are welcome, if you have thoughts you would like to add.
NB: Spoilers for basically all of the canon, manga and anime.
Tezuka's match with Ryoma - manga 42-43, flashbacks in 232, 234
Oishi is with Tezuka when he goes to Ryuzaki-sensei to request the match with Ryoma. That and their conversation after the match indicate that they have talked about it and that Oishi is either approving or neutral.
The manga now jumps right to the end of the match, the zero-shiki drop shot and Tezuka's admonition to Ryoma, that he should become Seigaku's pillar of support.
On the train, Oishi tells off Tezuka for using his full strength, especially when Ryoma has just recovered from his injury and Tezuka's may be aggravated. Tezuka has told him that it was necessary, but Oishi doesn't really understand why. Tezuka is not really listening. It's not until much later that we find out why.
In a flashback during Ryoma's match with Sanada, we see part of this match. Ryoma is his cocky self in the beginning, but when he sees Tezuka's seriousness and determination, he buckles down. Tezuka tells him over and over, "Hit a shot I cannot return and evolve."
During the game, Tezuka sees a vision of a samurai in Ryoma, though we don't find out about it until much later. (Sanada sees it too, when they play.) This is when he realises Ryoma's true potential and knows he has to give all of himself to unlock it.
Even though Tezuka seems not to have told Oishi about the samurai, they clearly communicated about this match in advance. Oishi doesn't hesitate to tell Tezuka what he thinks.
More than anyone, Oishi has the right to be concerned about Tezuka's injury. They have decided to lead Seigaku to the Nationals together. Tezuka risks that along with his arm.
Before the game against Rikkai, Tezuka, still on Kyuushuu, calls Ryuzaki-sensei and asks that Ryoma be Singles 1, so he'll play against Sanada. He tells Ryuzaki about the samurai and says that Ryoma needs this in order to advance himself. The implication is that Tezuka wants this even if it means that Ryoma will lose, that Seigaku will lose. (By this time, though, their spot at Nationals is secured, so they won't lose that regardless.)
When Ryuzaki asks Tezuka why he goes to such lengths for Ryoma, he doesn't answer. But after hanging up, he says, "Because I am his captain."
I get a real feeling of partnership from Tezuka and Oishi overall. It seems to me that initially, Tezuka just wants to help Ryoma improve and knows that he needs the challenge and teaching that Tezuka can give him. It's the vision of the samurai that really changes things, marks Ryoma as something special that Tezuka ought to go to even greater lengths for. But still, in the end, his reason, the one he vocalizes, anyhow, is that it's his responsibility to Ryoma as the club leader.
Tezuka's match with Ryoma - anime 25-26
When Tezuka goes to ask Ryuzaki if he can play Ryoma, he goes alone. He doesn't tell Oishi about it at all. In fact, he seems edgy and snappish with Oishi.
We actually see Tezuka telling Ryoma about the match. Oishi overhears and ticks off Tezuka about it, but Tezuka won't listen. We see Tezuka prepare by training and we see Ryoma brooding. Tezuka broods too and holds his arm. This match worries everyone.
Ryoma is clearly preoccupied by the upcoming match. He seems worried about it, not happy. Though when they actually meet to play, he has a few flashes of his usual attitude. Until he sees how serious Tezuka is.
Tezuka and Oishi go to see Tezuka's doctor (who is also Oishi's uncle). They are so joyful when they find out that Tezuka's arm has healed. I can count on one hand the times we see Tezuka smile. This is one of them.
Tezuka once again cuts Oishi off when Oishi expresses his concern about the match. During the match, Oishi watches, although he's hidden. He's worried about Tezuka's arm because Tezuka is going all out.
There's a point during the match where Ryoma still thinks he can beat Tezuka. But he can't. "Why do you play tennis?" Tezuka asks him. That's emphasized here, but not in the manga. The reason for playing, that Ryoma needs to find his own reason.
"Become Seigaku's pillar of support," Tezuka enjoins Ryoma.
Later, on the train, Oishi tells Tezuka off for going all out. "My joints are nothing," Tezuka says. It was necessary to play seriously. "This is the only thing I can do for him."
There is no samurai. Without it, things are more vague. Tezuka seems to focus more on Ryoma even before the match, to sense his potential more from the beginning. And he's not working together with Oishi. Tezuka seems more isolated here and he doesn't let Oishi support him.
We see much more of Ryoma's reaction to the whole situation as well. The focus is much more on Tezuka and Ryoma than on Oishi.
Tezuka vs Atobe - manga 143 - 153
After Fuji vs Jiroh, Tezuka steps onto the court amidst much murmuring. Other seeded teams in the tournament are out to watch him play Atobe.
There are scouts -- high school and pro -- out to watch this match. Ryoma is still sitting in as bench coach.
They begin to play. They are both strong. Ryoma seems surprised at Atobe's ability. Tezuka has actual expressions on his face while he plays.
When Atobe makes a remark about Tezuka's arm, Oishi blurts out that Tezuka's elbow has already healed. Oishi hasn't said anything because Tezuka didn't want anyone to know.
Flashback to Tezuka's first year, when he is defeating all the second- and third-years. Oishi tells Tezuka that he's impressed, but worried that their senpais might want to get back at Tezuka.
Tezuka says that in their time, he and Oishi will lead Seigaku to the Nationals.
Later on, when the others find out that Tezuka has been playing right-handed, one of them hits Tezuka's left elbow with a racquet. Tezuka quits the club. He apologizes to Oishi, who is crushed, but he can't stay in a club like this.
Yamato-buchou shows up and makes everyone run 100 laps. He won't let Tezuka quit until afterwards. Oishi, seeing how well-trained Tezuka is, can't stand to see him go. He stops Tezuka and say that if Tezuka quits, he will too. How can Tezuka give up because of something like this?
Yamato comes up and tells Tezuka to become the pillar of Seigaku. Yamato has not given up his dream of going to Nationals.
Back to the match. Tezuka and Atobe both play well. During the break, Tezuka and Ryoma sit side by side on the bench, not speaking.
Everyone realises that Atobe is deliberately drawing out the match to hurt Tezuka's arm. Oishi is very worried. However, it seems like Tezuka is complicit with Atobe. Atobe notes that if Tezuka doesn't start attacking aggressively soon, it will be too late for his arm. I've always wondered how Atobe would be able to draw the game out as much as he does if he and Tezuka are so close in ability.
More panels of Oishi watching, both concerned and determined, as though he's expressing Tezuka's determination.
The game progresses. Tezuka is at match point when his shoulder gives out. But he won't let the team approach him on the court.
Tezuka is sitting on the bench with Ryoma, Oishi is standing nearby, inside, not behind the fence like the others. The ref advises Tezuka to forfeit. Everyone is yelling for Tezuka to forfeit. He stands to return to the court.
Oishi blocks his way. They look at each other. "Are you trying to fulfil your promise to Yamato-buchou, about taking the team to Nationals? Good luck." They cross wrists. It's really important that Oishi is so supportive here. It's their dream, their plan. He's got to be the one to allow it.
As Tezuka is walking onto the court, Ryoma says, "Don't lose when you've won against me."
"I won't lose," Tezuka says.
Ryoma and Momo leave so Ryoma can warm up, in case he has to play. Atobe takes the game and they go into a tie-break. Tezuka takes the first point with a return ace and everyone cheers. Oishi looks concerned. Tezuka is gritting his teeth. His pain shows on his face.
At the end of the tie-break, Tezuka hits the zero-shiki. As best as I can make out, Ryoma at first sees it as though it's successful. But then he sees the truth -- that it won't roll back. Atobe returns it and Tezuka hits it into the net.
Atobe wins. Seigaku is shocked. Oishi closes his eyes. When Tezuka comes off the court, Oishi puts his arm around Tezuka's shoulders.
Tezuka asks Ryoma if he remembers what Tezuka told him two months ago. And Ryoma goes onto the court to play Hiroshi.
I won't lose, says Tezuka, and then he loses. I wonder if that weighs on him. It reminds me of Sanada to Yukimura.
Oishi has to be the one to give his blessing to Tezuka to keep playing. He is the one to support him off the court at the end.
Tezuka vs Atobe - anime 63, 65-68
After S2, Tezuka makes Ryoma warm up with him. There's a flashback to Tezuka asking Ryuzaki permission to play against Ryoma. Then Ryoma and Tezuka begin to volley. Ryoma is more familiar here with Tezuka than he has been in the past. Tezuka doesn't really respond, but doesn't freeze him out either.
Tezuka seems surprised by Ryoma's ability. His mouth opens and his eyes are wide. Ryoma seems to be going all out, instead of just warming up. He asks Tezuka to make it a three-point match. Tezuka agrees and wins, fairly easily.
This sequence only appears in the anime. It connects the Tezuka - Atobe match back to the Tezuka - Ryoma match. Ryoma wants Tezuka to see how he's improved and to test his ability against him.
Tezuka asks if Ryoma has analysed Fuji well (since Ryoma was sitting in as bench coach for that match) and tells Ryoma it's now time to analyze Tezuka. They have about as much of a casual conversation as I've ever heard from them, including some near-banter about their respective catch phrases.
Tezuka and Atobe take the court. Ryoma is watching. The same thing happens with Atobe remarking about Tezuka's arm and Oishi saying it was his elbow. Tezuka didn't want the club to worry.
There is a flashback that is essentially the same as the manga.
Oishi knows a lot about Tezuka's practice regimen, which mostly seems to take place outside of club time.
Although the doctor gave the okay, Oishi is still uncertain about Tezuka's arm. He's very worried.
Ryoma thinks that both Tezuka and Atobe are good for old guys. During the break, Tezuka and Ryoma sit together on the bench, not speaking. When the game resumes, Ryoma can see what Atobe is trying to do to Tezuka's shoulder.
There's a lot of focus on Ryoma's reaction. But Oishi is the one who says that if Tezuka plays a long game it could be bad for his arm.
Oishi flashes back to Yamato's admonition to Tezuka: Become Seigaku's pillar of support. He thinks that's what Tezuka is doing now. It seems like it means more than just winning, it's about the example Tezuka sets and the spirit he brings to the club.
Ryoma thinks, "Show me what you have, until the end." He watches Tezuka getting ready to serve and says, "Mada mada dane." He's smiling. I'm not sure just what he means by it here.
After Tezuka's shoulder gives out, everyone is shocked. There's a long shot of Oishi, isolated, and he yells, "Tezuka!"
Everyone except for Ryoma runs out onto the court.
The scene between Tezuka and Oishi, when Tezuka returns to the court, is essentially the same. And the same with Ryoma.
When Ryoma comes back after warming up, he's shocked to see the tie-break still going on.
Kachiro asks Oishi why he doesn't stop the match. OIshi says that Tezuka and Atobe are using tennis in a battle of will. Nobody can stop the match.
And then it ends.
Oishi is there, but there is no arm around the shoulders.
There's a long look between Ryoma and Tezuka. Ryoma is ready to play. More long looks. Tezuka is on the bench. Tezuka asks Ryoma if he remembers what he said to him, that day under the overpass.
Tezuka leaves - manga 159 (end) - 160
Tezuka is along on the bowling outing, but not bowling due to his injury. At the end of the afternoon, Ryuzaki announces that Tezuka will be going to Kyuushuu. We don't really see anyone's reactions, so it's hard to say if Oishi knew about it or not.
Oishi and Tezuka do this tricky thing to Ryoma, Momo, and Kaidoh, where they have them overhear conversations about how good Tezuka was at their age and how Oishi is worried about the team.
Oishi is so devious! Tezuka says, "Ever since we came back from bowling, it seems like your character has changed a lot." And it has. He's stepping up to be the leader. And doing it in his own sneaky way.
All of the third-year regulars are at the airport to see Tezuka off. Ryoma, Momo, and Kaidoh are all practising hard.
Oishi is the interim captain.
As Tezuka says, Oishi seems quite different here. He's very confident. And not distressed.
Tezuka leaves - anime 73 (end) - 75
I find it so interesting that Tezuka isn't coming out to the tennis club but Oishi is. Granted, Oishi's injury is much less severe, but I'm sure he's still not able to play yet, or not much. He's running the practices. And he says to Tezuka, "I thought you forgot all about the tennis club already."
Tezuka wouldn't leave before, just to go to another study program, but now he'll leave for rehabilitation.
Tezuka goes among the club members, giving them all advice. It's all very portentous.
Oishi is concerned about morale, so he arranges the mountain-climbing expedition.
The next day at practice, the regulars are gathered together. Tezuka tells them that he's going away to Germany. He clearly has not told Oishi beforehand.
Ryoma is shocked and the ball he's been balancing drops to the ground.
Tezuka practices at a sports complex, with a ball machine, hitting with his right hand.
Ryoma seems nonchalant about Tezuka leaving, but he's really rather distracted.
Tezuka finds Oishi in the library and asks him to take over as the club leader. Oishi refuses. Only Tezuka can lead them. But he will be the temporary buchou. "Be sure to come back," Oishi says. There is certainly some uncertainty planted in this episode about whether or not Tezuka will come back to Seigaku in time for Nationals.
Tezuka comes out onto the courts, ready to play. He warms up, using his right hand. Once practice ends, he tells Ryoma to say and play a game against him. Oishi is the ref.
It's an intense match. Tezuka is both trying to inspire everyone with his fighting spirit and to get Ryoma to improve. Tezuka eventually creates the Tezuka Zone, even though he's playing right-handed.
Ryoma is enjoying himself, even though he's losing, and he finds a way to break the Tezuka Zone. He doesn't win but he definitely evolves.
It's so different between the anime and manga! In the manga, Oishi is self-assured and working with Tezuka. In the anime, he's distressed and kept in the dark by Tezuka. In the manga, the emphasis is on all of the lower year members improving. In the anime, it's all about the connection between Tezuka and Ryoma. There is no match like this in the manga.
"Before we play again," Tezuka says, "become strong enough to beat me."
We don't see Tezuka at the airport in the anime, though I thought there was a flashback to it at some point and that only Oishi and Ryuzaki were there to see him off.
Tezuka away - manga (flashback) 282-286
In a flashback, we see Tezuka undergoing examination at the hospital on Kyuushuu. There are no words, but Tezuka's shocked face and the overturned stool behind him tell the story.
He sits on his bed and broods.
Later on, we see him, wearing the same shirt as he does in the flashback phone call to Ryuzaki about Ryoma and Sanada. He goes to a court, picks up a racquet that's lying there, and tries to hit. "Will I make it in time?" he thinks. He's definitely still focused on his team, on getting back for Nationals.
The racquet belongs to a grade-school girl. She tells him to raise his shoulder more and pushes it up. It seems to hurt Tezuka a lot. They strike up a bit of a friendship and train together. She keeps telling Tezuka to raise his shoulders more.
Tezuka keeps training against a wall, after his rehabilitation is done. He can't properly lift his shoulders, not because he's not healed, but because of fear and the memory of pain.
Then the Shishigaku tennis club show up and force Tezuka to play against them. He does terribly. The girl says she'll play in his stead, and even though she's getting beaten too, her determination helps Tezuka to overcome his fears. And Tezuka helps her as well.
He crushes his opponents and leaves to make it home in time for Nationals.
The important things here are the fear Tezuka has to overcome and his strong will to make it back to his team. Tezuka's greatest opponent really seems to be himself, both in his match with Atobe, and then here, in Kyuushuu and in the match with Kabaji that the flashback occurs during. Tezuka has no rival but himself.
He is determined to rejoin his team. There is never any question of him staying away if he is fit to come home.
Tezuka away - anime 130-131
The team goes to Germany to visit Tezuka. Ryoma is transfixed. But then, everybody is. (Momoshiro tells him not to cry when he sees Tezuka! Ryoma is ticked off by the suggestion.)
Oishi gives Tezuka the Kantou tournament medal. Tezuka is touched that the team considers he was fighting along side of them.
Tezuka seems so very relaxed. He even laughs and teases Ryoma. Either that or he and Ryoma are having a serious conversation and everyone else thinks it's teasing. Oishi sent Tezuka videos of the Rikkai matches and Tezuka says Ryoma did all right, but there are still holes in his play.
And then there is sightseeing. Tezuka and Oishi talk. Tezuka misses playing tennis. He has a little fantasy about playing against Sanada.
Tezuka's coach says that he's really annoying, that he's "impertinent, disdainful, conceited," and he lectures her. She says Ryoma's cockiness is similar.
When Tezuka comes upon Ryoma and his coach playing, he lets the game continue, so as to help his coach get over herself. But there's no indication that Tezuka himself needs to get over anything or that the match is really all that big a deal for Ryoma either.
Tezuka has been talking about Ryoma to his trainer.
When they leave, everyone says they'll be waiting for Tezuka. Ryuzaki says, "If anything happens..." and Tezuka says, "Yes." But what that means, I do not know.
Ryoma says good-bye to Tezuka in a soft voice.
In the anime, I get the feeling that Tezuka's return to Seigaku isn't a sure thing. That he might just choose to stay away. There certainly doesn't seem to be the determination and urgency as in the manga. It feels symbolic that he goes so much further away, that he leaves Japan entirely.
Tezuka's return - manga 248 (end) - 250
Oishi is at the drawing for placement at the National tournament. He's rather nervous. But just as Seigaku is called to draw, Tezuka appears at the back of the hall and does the drawing instead of OIshi.
This is the first Oishi knows about Tezuka being back in Tokyo, although he may have had updates from Tezuka.
Unlike the other boys, Tezuka isn't in school uniform; he's in his Seigaku Regulars warm-up suit.
Back at school, Tezuka addresses the club and congratulates them on winning the Kantou tournament. Ryuzaki announces a ranking tournament, but Oishi steps up.
He says that the ranking tournament could affect morale, that they won the Kantou title and that they have been playing their best tennis. Momo offers to drop out, but Oishi says that he won't allow anyone whose injuries haven't completely healed to be a Regular on the team. He's looking right at Tezuka.
He tells Tezuka they will have a match and if Tezuka loses even one game to Oishi, he won't allow him on the Regulars.
Tezuka says he won't hold back. They play. All the regulars are saying who they think will win. "Tezuka." "Tezuka." "Tezuka."
"Oishi-fukubuchou," Ryoma says, and turns away from the court. (I don't think I've ever seen him use that title for Oishi before. He usually just says "Oishi-senpai". )
Ryoma flashes back to when Tezuka left and Oishi let him overhear Oishi saying how amazing Tezuka was in his first year, how he could hit 26 falling leaves in a row. Ryoma hits leaves until he gets 27.
Oishi is sweating; Tezuka is not. It's 5-0 for Tezuka, but if Oishi takes the next point, he'll win one game.
Tezuka hits a heavy ball. And Oishi's wrist gives out. There's a "snap" sound effect.
Oishi is still trying hard. There's a whole page about their first year, a flashback collage. "Our goal is to lead Seigaku to the Nationals!" Tezuka wins and takes his place as a Regular. Oishi is crying as he says, "This is the strongest member for winning at Nationals." But does he think he himself is the weakest member?
Ryoma is nearby. It's unclear if he watched any of the match, but he does seem to be affected by it, fired up and inspired.
I have so much respect for Oishi here. He knows that it will be better for the team to stay together. And that Tezuka still needs to show himself worthy and able to lead them. That there needs to be a strong transition.
I don't know if Oishi knew his wrist was still not quite healed. He seems surprised, but maybe that's just the pain. It breaks my heart that they have to change places like this, but that's okay. Oishi is always there to support Tezuka and the team and this is what needed to happen.
I think Oishi is stronger than Tezuka. That's why he can do this, he can give up his place on the team.
(It makes me think of Hughes and Roy, actually, of Hughes telling Roy he'll stay at a lower rank, to support him from below.)
Tezuka's return - anime 139 (end) - 141, 164, 166
At the Senbatsu training camp, Ryuzaki has to leave due to illness. She calls Tezuka back from Germany to coach in her stead.
Oishi is having trouble with the leader-less group. Nobody wants to do basic training and does what they want to. Oishi wonders, "What would he do?"
Tezuka arrives at the facility and is met by the ichinen trio. (Unlike Ryoma in Germany, they do cry.) He is introduced at the new coach, which causes some rumbling. Tezuka's rehab is not yet complete.
But he can play a little and he does, to convince his group that he is a worthy coach.
Anime-Tezuka seems so passionless, compared to manga-Tezuka. He's harder for me to understand. He seems broken to me, in a way that manga-Tezuka is not.
There's not a lot more to say about these episodes, except that I wonder how Tezuka feels about Atobe and Sanada fighting over him. Tezuka really is the golden boy -- everyone chases after him. Is he proud? Does it make him conceited? It's so hard to tell, because he never really expresses himself.
After Senbatsu, it's back to business as usual. And Tezuka, finally, returns to the club. Ryoma is about to hit a shot to open a message for Ryuzaki, who is back after being hospitalized. Tezuka shows up in his uniform and says he'll do it. And he does.
This is parallel to Oishi and the placement lottery in the manga. And it also shows that Tezuka's arm is all better now. Everyone is happy.
There's a tableau at the end of the episode with everyone crowding around. Oishi clasps Tezuka's hand, but Tezuka is looking away, down at Ryoma.
There's no protest from Oishi here and they do have ranking matches. There's a parallel scene to the very first ranking matches, with Tezuka, Ryuzaki, and Oishi. Ryoma is clearly thinking about Tezuka. You can tell by the way he pretends not to be.
Conclusions, somewhat
In the manga, Ryoma and Tezuka have played only once, to date. Ryoma still needs to defeat Tezuka. In the anime, they have played three times, and things are resolved.
The only conclusion I want to draw is that the focus is very different between the anime and manga. The anime is about Tezuka and Ryoma, beginning to end. The manga isn't, not really. And in the manga, the connection between Tezuka and Oishi is what underlies the drive to Nationals.
Ryoma is the Prince of Tennis and he will be, wherever he goes. Tezuka and Oishi are Seigaku and they can only be that where they are.
In which I look at important events in the Prince of Tennis manga and anime, to observe differences in characterization and emphasis for these three characters: Tezuka, Oishi, and Ryoma.
This is not a shipping discussion, although the reason for doing it is to help me write relationship-oriented fic. I ship Tezuka/Oishi only in manga canon and Tezuka/Ryoma only in anime canon. So I needed to be aware of the differences, especially in characterization.
This is fairly rough, part summary and part commentary. I meant to tighten it before posting, but decided it was too big a job; I would rather spend the time writing fic, not editing characterization notes. So, it's long. But I hope it will be useful. Any and all comments are welcome, if you have thoughts you would like to add.
NB: Spoilers for basically all of the canon, manga and anime.
Tezuka's match with Ryoma - manga 42-43, flashbacks in 232, 234
Oishi is with Tezuka when he goes to Ryuzaki-sensei to request the match with Ryoma. That and their conversation after the match indicate that they have talked about it and that Oishi is either approving or neutral.
The manga now jumps right to the end of the match, the zero-shiki drop shot and Tezuka's admonition to Ryoma, that he should become Seigaku's pillar of support.
On the train, Oishi tells off Tezuka for using his full strength, especially when Ryoma has just recovered from his injury and Tezuka's may be aggravated. Tezuka has told him that it was necessary, but Oishi doesn't really understand why. Tezuka is not really listening. It's not until much later that we find out why.
In a flashback during Ryoma's match with Sanada, we see part of this match. Ryoma is his cocky self in the beginning, but when he sees Tezuka's seriousness and determination, he buckles down. Tezuka tells him over and over, "Hit a shot I cannot return and evolve."
During the game, Tezuka sees a vision of a samurai in Ryoma, though we don't find out about it until much later. (Sanada sees it too, when they play.) This is when he realises Ryoma's true potential and knows he has to give all of himself to unlock it.
Even though Tezuka seems not to have told Oishi about the samurai, they clearly communicated about this match in advance. Oishi doesn't hesitate to tell Tezuka what he thinks.
More than anyone, Oishi has the right to be concerned about Tezuka's injury. They have decided to lead Seigaku to the Nationals together. Tezuka risks that along with his arm.
Before the game against Rikkai, Tezuka, still on Kyuushuu, calls Ryuzaki-sensei and asks that Ryoma be Singles 1, so he'll play against Sanada. He tells Ryuzaki about the samurai and says that Ryoma needs this in order to advance himself. The implication is that Tezuka wants this even if it means that Ryoma will lose, that Seigaku will lose. (By this time, though, their spot at Nationals is secured, so they won't lose that regardless.)
When Ryuzaki asks Tezuka why he goes to such lengths for Ryoma, he doesn't answer. But after hanging up, he says, "Because I am his captain."
I get a real feeling of partnership from Tezuka and Oishi overall. It seems to me that initially, Tezuka just wants to help Ryoma improve and knows that he needs the challenge and teaching that Tezuka can give him. It's the vision of the samurai that really changes things, marks Ryoma as something special that Tezuka ought to go to even greater lengths for. But still, in the end, his reason, the one he vocalizes, anyhow, is that it's his responsibility to Ryoma as the club leader.
Tezuka's match with Ryoma - anime 25-26
When Tezuka goes to ask Ryuzaki if he can play Ryoma, he goes alone. He doesn't tell Oishi about it at all. In fact, he seems edgy and snappish with Oishi.
We actually see Tezuka telling Ryoma about the match. Oishi overhears and ticks off Tezuka about it, but Tezuka won't listen. We see Tezuka prepare by training and we see Ryoma brooding. Tezuka broods too and holds his arm. This match worries everyone.
Ryoma is clearly preoccupied by the upcoming match. He seems worried about it, not happy. Though when they actually meet to play, he has a few flashes of his usual attitude. Until he sees how serious Tezuka is.
Tezuka and Oishi go to see Tezuka's doctor (who is also Oishi's uncle). They are so joyful when they find out that Tezuka's arm has healed. I can count on one hand the times we see Tezuka smile. This is one of them.
Tezuka once again cuts Oishi off when Oishi expresses his concern about the match. During the match, Oishi watches, although he's hidden. He's worried about Tezuka's arm because Tezuka is going all out.
There's a point during the match where Ryoma still thinks he can beat Tezuka. But he can't. "Why do you play tennis?" Tezuka asks him. That's emphasized here, but not in the manga. The reason for playing, that Ryoma needs to find his own reason.
"Become Seigaku's pillar of support," Tezuka enjoins Ryoma.
Later, on the train, Oishi tells Tezuka off for going all out. "My joints are nothing," Tezuka says. It was necessary to play seriously. "This is the only thing I can do for him."
There is no samurai. Without it, things are more vague. Tezuka seems to focus more on Ryoma even before the match, to sense his potential more from the beginning. And he's not working together with Oishi. Tezuka seems more isolated here and he doesn't let Oishi support him.
We see much more of Ryoma's reaction to the whole situation as well. The focus is much more on Tezuka and Ryoma than on Oishi.
Tezuka vs Atobe - manga 143 - 153
After Fuji vs Jiroh, Tezuka steps onto the court amidst much murmuring. Other seeded teams in the tournament are out to watch him play Atobe.
There are scouts -- high school and pro -- out to watch this match. Ryoma is still sitting in as bench coach.
They begin to play. They are both strong. Ryoma seems surprised at Atobe's ability. Tezuka has actual expressions on his face while he plays.
When Atobe makes a remark about Tezuka's arm, Oishi blurts out that Tezuka's elbow has already healed. Oishi hasn't said anything because Tezuka didn't want anyone to know.
Flashback to Tezuka's first year, when he is defeating all the second- and third-years. Oishi tells Tezuka that he's impressed, but worried that their senpais might want to get back at Tezuka.
Tezuka says that in their time, he and Oishi will lead Seigaku to the Nationals.
Later on, when the others find out that Tezuka has been playing right-handed, one of them hits Tezuka's left elbow with a racquet. Tezuka quits the club. He apologizes to Oishi, who is crushed, but he can't stay in a club like this.
Yamato-buchou shows up and makes everyone run 100 laps. He won't let Tezuka quit until afterwards. Oishi, seeing how well-trained Tezuka is, can't stand to see him go. He stops Tezuka and say that if Tezuka quits, he will too. How can Tezuka give up because of something like this?
Yamato comes up and tells Tezuka to become the pillar of Seigaku. Yamato has not given up his dream of going to Nationals.
Back to the match. Tezuka and Atobe both play well. During the break, Tezuka and Ryoma sit side by side on the bench, not speaking.
Everyone realises that Atobe is deliberately drawing out the match to hurt Tezuka's arm. Oishi is very worried. However, it seems like Tezuka is complicit with Atobe. Atobe notes that if Tezuka doesn't start attacking aggressively soon, it will be too late for his arm. I've always wondered how Atobe would be able to draw the game out as much as he does if he and Tezuka are so close in ability.
More panels of Oishi watching, both concerned and determined, as though he's expressing Tezuka's determination.
The game progresses. Tezuka is at match point when his shoulder gives out. But he won't let the team approach him on the court.
Tezuka is sitting on the bench with Ryoma, Oishi is standing nearby, inside, not behind the fence like the others. The ref advises Tezuka to forfeit. Everyone is yelling for Tezuka to forfeit. He stands to return to the court.
Oishi blocks his way. They look at each other. "Are you trying to fulfil your promise to Yamato-buchou, about taking the team to Nationals? Good luck." They cross wrists. It's really important that Oishi is so supportive here. It's their dream, their plan. He's got to be the one to allow it.
As Tezuka is walking onto the court, Ryoma says, "Don't lose when you've won against me."
"I won't lose," Tezuka says.
Ryoma and Momo leave so Ryoma can warm up, in case he has to play. Atobe takes the game and they go into a tie-break. Tezuka takes the first point with a return ace and everyone cheers. Oishi looks concerned. Tezuka is gritting his teeth. His pain shows on his face.
At the end of the tie-break, Tezuka hits the zero-shiki. As best as I can make out, Ryoma at first sees it as though it's successful. But then he sees the truth -- that it won't roll back. Atobe returns it and Tezuka hits it into the net.
Atobe wins. Seigaku is shocked. Oishi closes his eyes. When Tezuka comes off the court, Oishi puts his arm around Tezuka's shoulders.
Tezuka asks Ryoma if he remembers what Tezuka told him two months ago. And Ryoma goes onto the court to play Hiroshi.
I won't lose, says Tezuka, and then he loses. I wonder if that weighs on him. It reminds me of Sanada to Yukimura.
Oishi has to be the one to give his blessing to Tezuka to keep playing. He is the one to support him off the court at the end.
Tezuka vs Atobe - anime 63, 65-68
After S2, Tezuka makes Ryoma warm up with him. There's a flashback to Tezuka asking Ryuzaki permission to play against Ryoma. Then Ryoma and Tezuka begin to volley. Ryoma is more familiar here with Tezuka than he has been in the past. Tezuka doesn't really respond, but doesn't freeze him out either.
Tezuka seems surprised by Ryoma's ability. His mouth opens and his eyes are wide. Ryoma seems to be going all out, instead of just warming up. He asks Tezuka to make it a three-point match. Tezuka agrees and wins, fairly easily.
This sequence only appears in the anime. It connects the Tezuka - Atobe match back to the Tezuka - Ryoma match. Ryoma wants Tezuka to see how he's improved and to test his ability against him.
Tezuka asks if Ryoma has analysed Fuji well (since Ryoma was sitting in as bench coach for that match) and tells Ryoma it's now time to analyze Tezuka. They have about as much of a casual conversation as I've ever heard from them, including some near-banter about their respective catch phrases.
Tezuka and Atobe take the court. Ryoma is watching. The same thing happens with Atobe remarking about Tezuka's arm and Oishi saying it was his elbow. Tezuka didn't want the club to worry.
There is a flashback that is essentially the same as the manga.
Oishi knows a lot about Tezuka's practice regimen, which mostly seems to take place outside of club time.
Although the doctor gave the okay, Oishi is still uncertain about Tezuka's arm. He's very worried.
Ryoma thinks that both Tezuka and Atobe are good for old guys. During the break, Tezuka and Ryoma sit together on the bench, not speaking. When the game resumes, Ryoma can see what Atobe is trying to do to Tezuka's shoulder.
There's a lot of focus on Ryoma's reaction. But Oishi is the one who says that if Tezuka plays a long game it could be bad for his arm.
Oishi flashes back to Yamato's admonition to Tezuka: Become Seigaku's pillar of support. He thinks that's what Tezuka is doing now. It seems like it means more than just winning, it's about the example Tezuka sets and the spirit he brings to the club.
Ryoma thinks, "Show me what you have, until the end." He watches Tezuka getting ready to serve and says, "Mada mada dane." He's smiling. I'm not sure just what he means by it here.
After Tezuka's shoulder gives out, everyone is shocked. There's a long shot of Oishi, isolated, and he yells, "Tezuka!"
Everyone except for Ryoma runs out onto the court.
The scene between Tezuka and Oishi, when Tezuka returns to the court, is essentially the same. And the same with Ryoma.
When Ryoma comes back after warming up, he's shocked to see the tie-break still going on.
Kachiro asks Oishi why he doesn't stop the match. OIshi says that Tezuka and Atobe are using tennis in a battle of will. Nobody can stop the match.
And then it ends.
Oishi is there, but there is no arm around the shoulders.
There's a long look between Ryoma and Tezuka. Ryoma is ready to play. More long looks. Tezuka is on the bench. Tezuka asks Ryoma if he remembers what he said to him, that day under the overpass.
Tezuka leaves - manga 159 (end) - 160
Tezuka is along on the bowling outing, but not bowling due to his injury. At the end of the afternoon, Ryuzaki announces that Tezuka will be going to Kyuushuu. We don't really see anyone's reactions, so it's hard to say if Oishi knew about it or not.
Oishi and Tezuka do this tricky thing to Ryoma, Momo, and Kaidoh, where they have them overhear conversations about how good Tezuka was at their age and how Oishi is worried about the team.
Oishi is so devious! Tezuka says, "Ever since we came back from bowling, it seems like your character has changed a lot." And it has. He's stepping up to be the leader. And doing it in his own sneaky way.
All of the third-year regulars are at the airport to see Tezuka off. Ryoma, Momo, and Kaidoh are all practising hard.
Oishi is the interim captain.
As Tezuka says, Oishi seems quite different here. He's very confident. And not distressed.
Tezuka leaves - anime 73 (end) - 75
I find it so interesting that Tezuka isn't coming out to the tennis club but Oishi is. Granted, Oishi's injury is much less severe, but I'm sure he's still not able to play yet, or not much. He's running the practices. And he says to Tezuka, "I thought you forgot all about the tennis club already."
Tezuka wouldn't leave before, just to go to another study program, but now he'll leave for rehabilitation.
Tezuka goes among the club members, giving them all advice. It's all very portentous.
Oishi is concerned about morale, so he arranges the mountain-climbing expedition.
The next day at practice, the regulars are gathered together. Tezuka tells them that he's going away to Germany. He clearly has not told Oishi beforehand.
Ryoma is shocked and the ball he's been balancing drops to the ground.
Tezuka practices at a sports complex, with a ball machine, hitting with his right hand.
Ryoma seems nonchalant about Tezuka leaving, but he's really rather distracted.
Tezuka finds Oishi in the library and asks him to take over as the club leader. Oishi refuses. Only Tezuka can lead them. But he will be the temporary buchou. "Be sure to come back," Oishi says. There is certainly some uncertainty planted in this episode about whether or not Tezuka will come back to Seigaku in time for Nationals.
Tezuka comes out onto the courts, ready to play. He warms up, using his right hand. Once practice ends, he tells Ryoma to say and play a game against him. Oishi is the ref.
It's an intense match. Tezuka is both trying to inspire everyone with his fighting spirit and to get Ryoma to improve. Tezuka eventually creates the Tezuka Zone, even though he's playing right-handed.
Ryoma is enjoying himself, even though he's losing, and he finds a way to break the Tezuka Zone. He doesn't win but he definitely evolves.
It's so different between the anime and manga! In the manga, Oishi is self-assured and working with Tezuka. In the anime, he's distressed and kept in the dark by Tezuka. In the manga, the emphasis is on all of the lower year members improving. In the anime, it's all about the connection between Tezuka and Ryoma. There is no match like this in the manga.
"Before we play again," Tezuka says, "become strong enough to beat me."
We don't see Tezuka at the airport in the anime, though I thought there was a flashback to it at some point and that only Oishi and Ryuzaki were there to see him off.
Tezuka away - manga (flashback) 282-286
In a flashback, we see Tezuka undergoing examination at the hospital on Kyuushuu. There are no words, but Tezuka's shocked face and the overturned stool behind him tell the story.
He sits on his bed and broods.
Later on, we see him, wearing the same shirt as he does in the flashback phone call to Ryuzaki about Ryoma and Sanada. He goes to a court, picks up a racquet that's lying there, and tries to hit. "Will I make it in time?" he thinks. He's definitely still focused on his team, on getting back for Nationals.
The racquet belongs to a grade-school girl. She tells him to raise his shoulder more and pushes it up. It seems to hurt Tezuka a lot. They strike up a bit of a friendship and train together. She keeps telling Tezuka to raise his shoulders more.
Tezuka keeps training against a wall, after his rehabilitation is done. He can't properly lift his shoulders, not because he's not healed, but because of fear and the memory of pain.
Then the Shishigaku tennis club show up and force Tezuka to play against them. He does terribly. The girl says she'll play in his stead, and even though she's getting beaten too, her determination helps Tezuka to overcome his fears. And Tezuka helps her as well.
He crushes his opponents and leaves to make it home in time for Nationals.
The important things here are the fear Tezuka has to overcome and his strong will to make it back to his team. Tezuka's greatest opponent really seems to be himself, both in his match with Atobe, and then here, in Kyuushuu and in the match with Kabaji that the flashback occurs during. Tezuka has no rival but himself.
He is determined to rejoin his team. There is never any question of him staying away if he is fit to come home.
Tezuka away - anime 130-131
The team goes to Germany to visit Tezuka. Ryoma is transfixed. But then, everybody is. (Momoshiro tells him not to cry when he sees Tezuka! Ryoma is ticked off by the suggestion.)
Oishi gives Tezuka the Kantou tournament medal. Tezuka is touched that the team considers he was fighting along side of them.
Tezuka seems so very relaxed. He even laughs and teases Ryoma. Either that or he and Ryoma are having a serious conversation and everyone else thinks it's teasing. Oishi sent Tezuka videos of the Rikkai matches and Tezuka says Ryoma did all right, but there are still holes in his play.
And then there is sightseeing. Tezuka and Oishi talk. Tezuka misses playing tennis. He has a little fantasy about playing against Sanada.
Tezuka's coach says that he's really annoying, that he's "impertinent, disdainful, conceited," and he lectures her. She says Ryoma's cockiness is similar.
When Tezuka comes upon Ryoma and his coach playing, he lets the game continue, so as to help his coach get over herself. But there's no indication that Tezuka himself needs to get over anything or that the match is really all that big a deal for Ryoma either.
Tezuka has been talking about Ryoma to his trainer.
When they leave, everyone says they'll be waiting for Tezuka. Ryuzaki says, "If anything happens..." and Tezuka says, "Yes." But what that means, I do not know.
Ryoma says good-bye to Tezuka in a soft voice.
In the anime, I get the feeling that Tezuka's return to Seigaku isn't a sure thing. That he might just choose to stay away. There certainly doesn't seem to be the determination and urgency as in the manga. It feels symbolic that he goes so much further away, that he leaves Japan entirely.
Tezuka's return - manga 248 (end) - 250
Oishi is at the drawing for placement at the National tournament. He's rather nervous. But just as Seigaku is called to draw, Tezuka appears at the back of the hall and does the drawing instead of OIshi.
This is the first Oishi knows about Tezuka being back in Tokyo, although he may have had updates from Tezuka.
Unlike the other boys, Tezuka isn't in school uniform; he's in his Seigaku Regulars warm-up suit.
Back at school, Tezuka addresses the club and congratulates them on winning the Kantou tournament. Ryuzaki announces a ranking tournament, but Oishi steps up.
He says that the ranking tournament could affect morale, that they won the Kantou title and that they have been playing their best tennis. Momo offers to drop out, but Oishi says that he won't allow anyone whose injuries haven't completely healed to be a Regular on the team. He's looking right at Tezuka.
He tells Tezuka they will have a match and if Tezuka loses even one game to Oishi, he won't allow him on the Regulars.
Tezuka says he won't hold back. They play. All the regulars are saying who they think will win. "Tezuka." "Tezuka." "Tezuka."
"Oishi-fukubuchou," Ryoma says, and turns away from the court. (I don't think I've ever seen him use that title for Oishi before. He usually just says "Oishi-senpai". )
Ryoma flashes back to when Tezuka left and Oishi let him overhear Oishi saying how amazing Tezuka was in his first year, how he could hit 26 falling leaves in a row. Ryoma hits leaves until he gets 27.
Oishi is sweating; Tezuka is not. It's 5-0 for Tezuka, but if Oishi takes the next point, he'll win one game.
Tezuka hits a heavy ball. And Oishi's wrist gives out. There's a "snap" sound effect.
Oishi is still trying hard. There's a whole page about their first year, a flashback collage. "Our goal is to lead Seigaku to the Nationals!" Tezuka wins and takes his place as a Regular. Oishi is crying as he says, "This is the strongest member for winning at Nationals." But does he think he himself is the weakest member?
Ryoma is nearby. It's unclear if he watched any of the match, but he does seem to be affected by it, fired up and inspired.
I have so much respect for Oishi here. He knows that it will be better for the team to stay together. And that Tezuka still needs to show himself worthy and able to lead them. That there needs to be a strong transition.
I don't know if Oishi knew his wrist was still not quite healed. He seems surprised, but maybe that's just the pain. It breaks my heart that they have to change places like this, but that's okay. Oishi is always there to support Tezuka and the team and this is what needed to happen.
I think Oishi is stronger than Tezuka. That's why he can do this, he can give up his place on the team.
(It makes me think of Hughes and Roy, actually, of Hughes telling Roy he'll stay at a lower rank, to support him from below.)
Tezuka's return - anime 139 (end) - 141, 164, 166
At the Senbatsu training camp, Ryuzaki has to leave due to illness. She calls Tezuka back from Germany to coach in her stead.
Oishi is having trouble with the leader-less group. Nobody wants to do basic training and does what they want to. Oishi wonders, "What would he do?"
Tezuka arrives at the facility and is met by the ichinen trio. (Unlike Ryoma in Germany, they do cry.) He is introduced at the new coach, which causes some rumbling. Tezuka's rehab is not yet complete.
But he can play a little and he does, to convince his group that he is a worthy coach.
Anime-Tezuka seems so passionless, compared to manga-Tezuka. He's harder for me to understand. He seems broken to me, in a way that manga-Tezuka is not.
There's not a lot more to say about these episodes, except that I wonder how Tezuka feels about Atobe and Sanada fighting over him. Tezuka really is the golden boy -- everyone chases after him. Is he proud? Does it make him conceited? It's so hard to tell, because he never really expresses himself.
After Senbatsu, it's back to business as usual. And Tezuka, finally, returns to the club. Ryoma is about to hit a shot to open a message for Ryuzaki, who is back after being hospitalized. Tezuka shows up in his uniform and says he'll do it. And he does.
This is parallel to Oishi and the placement lottery in the manga. And it also shows that Tezuka's arm is all better now. Everyone is happy.
There's a tableau at the end of the episode with everyone crowding around. Oishi clasps Tezuka's hand, but Tezuka is looking away, down at Ryoma.
There's no protest from Oishi here and they do have ranking matches. There's a parallel scene to the very first ranking matches, with Tezuka, Ryuzaki, and Oishi. Ryoma is clearly thinking about Tezuka. You can tell by the way he pretends not to be.
Conclusions, somewhat
In the manga, Ryoma and Tezuka have played only once, to date. Ryoma still needs to defeat Tezuka. In the anime, they have played three times, and things are resolved.
The only conclusion I want to draw is that the focus is very different between the anime and manga. The anime is about Tezuka and Ryoma, beginning to end. The manga isn't, not really. And in the manga, the connection between Tezuka and Oishi is what underlies the drive to Nationals.
Ryoma is the Prince of Tennis and he will be, wherever he goes. Tezuka and Oishi are Seigaku and they can only be that where they are.
no subject
I did think it was odd that Oishi wasn't there in the anime. In the manga, he and Tezuka leave the celebration at Kawamura Sushi early to go have the talk with Ryuzaki-sensei. In the anime, when Oishi, Tezuka, and Ryuzaki-sensei left early, I totally thought they were going to go have the same discussion. Instead, it's left unclear as to where and why they had to go, and Tezuka comes in alone the next day (I think; it could be the next week) to have the talk with her.
I don't quite get how it is that Tezuka allows Oishi to support him in the manga but not the anime, at least as far as the match with Ryoma is concerned. I don't recall Oishi ever expressing anything other than outright disapproval of the idea, and the fact that he stays outside Ryuzaki-sensei's office, leaning against the wall, during Tezuka's talk with her instead of going in with him and voicing his support seems to indicate that he disapproved of it to begin with. It seems that both times, Tezuka has decided that the match is too important not to play. I will say, though, that in the manga, it seems far more likely that Tezuka wants to bring out Echizen's potential more for the good of Seigaku than for Ryoma himself, at least before the samurai vision.
I don't have much to say about the Atobe-Tezuka match. I admit to adoring the warm-up and banter sequence before the match (though I could have done without Sakuno's constant "Ryoma-kun"-ing; at least she didn't tag along during the banter). There's something rather interesting about the "I won't lose" scene, though; during the actual match, there's not much expression from Tezuka other than grim determination. Ryoma, however, has a flashback to this moment at the decisive point of the Sanada match (ep 128, I think), that has Tezuka looking almost startled, and then inspired, by Ryoma's comment. And in both manga and anime, although it's Oishi who gives his approval, it's Ryoma who has the last word.
Also, a note on the Hiyoshi-Echizen match: in both manga and anime, Tezuka remains as bench coach even though Ryuzaki-sensei's back. In the anime, he says nothing at all; in the manga, he says or thinks something along the lines of "That's it Echizen; finish him with that shot!" Odd, that he somehow seems more involved in the manga than the anime, there.
The farewells really are very different. Although, I don't remember the sneakiness as Oishi's idea, originally; isn't there a bit in the manga's narration where it's referred to as Tezuka's idea to subtly inspire his players? I admit to really loving the right-handed match between Ryoma and Tezuka in the anime; there was something very entertaining about watching two lefties play each other right-handed. And it also answered the question for me as to why Tezuka didn't switch hands against Atobe; he would have had to spend valuable points working things out and evolving, and he simply didn't have the room to do that in such an important match against a skilled opponent. I am confused, though, as to why Ryoma was so shocked by the right-handed zero-shiki; didn't he hit it right-handed against Hiyoshi?
Tezuka in Kyuushuu: I completely agree about his greatest opponent being himself. The whole thing about being afraid of the memory of pain really hit me as something very true-sounding in a sometimes-ridiculous plot. Does the manga ever show his reaction to the Rikkai win? I seem to recall one of the players taunting him with the fact that his team won without him; I don't quite see why this is an insult, really. I mean, I get that it's "they don't need you to win", but isn't that a compliment? I don't think Tezuka was particularly impressed either.
*continued in next comment*
no subject
Can't really compare the returns, since I haven't seen the anime one. I agree that watching the Oishi-Tezuka match was heartbreaking, but I was breaking my heart over Eiji rather than anyone else. I think Oishi knew his wrist wasn't up to par yet, and for the sake of the Nationals, he had to accept that, as well as give Tezuka a smooth transition back. For him, it was a totally natural and logical decision; I don't see him as spending a lot of time agonizing over it. It needed to be done, so he did it. I really empathized with Eiji's reaction of absolute dismay, followed by fury, then grudging understanding that the promise to Tezuka was made earlier and takes priority, but dammit! I won't play doubles with anyone else! (All of this, of course, only fills me with further guilt over the fact that I'm rooting for Shishido-Ootori over the GP in #290. Wah!) Oishi really does keep his promises, no matter the cost. (Lovely Tezuka/Oishi, Oishi/Eiji fic about that here (http://www.fanfiction.net/s/2159266/1/), by
Finally, a random note about the OVA, A Day on Survival Mountain. (What the hell does OVA stand for, anyway?) You've stated in previous posts that you don't believe Tezuka sees anything much of himself in Ryoma, apart from the whole left-handed prodigy bit. I think I disagree with that, especially in the anime, and the OVA has some of the most classic bits in support of that, with the whole challenging the dastardly university students plot. When Ryoma first challenges them, Tezuka commands him back, and Ryoma obeys. After that, Tezuka finds out that they're only going to given the courts they were promised in the afternoon, since Sasabe's being an asshole and is the son of the owner. When Sasabe reneges on that and makes the manager get down on his knees and beg, Ryoma gets pissed off and walks in to challenge them again. Tezuka then walks in as well, and instead of ordering Ryoma out, he speaks directly to the coach, with a perfectly polite but rather snide remark about "borrowing your students for a while". Then he tells a somewhat surprised, but delighted, Ryoma to go for it. Finally, there's the bit where after Seigaku has defeated all the students and the former-pro-turned-coach says he'll take on anyone, and Tezuka steps up with a "Please." Then he returns the power serve, breaking a hole in the fence, and while everyone's standing there in shock, he says deadpan, "It must be the fresh air. I'm really feeling the ball well today." Then, of course, he hands the coach his ass on a platter, 6-0. Snarky!Tezuka! I never thought I'd see the day.
*continued in yet another comment*
no subject
Their leading styles, however, would undoubtedly be different. Tezuka's a born commander; Ryoma prefers sniping from the sidelines. Tezuka stands around watching practice with a hawk's eye, Seeing All; Ryoma pulls his cap down and looks bored, but Sees All nonetheless. If and when Ryoma becomes buchou of Seigaku, his players will be falling over themselves to try and make him look interested in their play. That's how they'll know they're doing well. And some of them will probably think he's full of it, until they see him
and Tezuka play a practice matchplay someone he finds interesting, at which point they will hide in the clubhouse and cry.I am getting way off-track here, and I should be in bed. Pardon my rambling, but your posts seem to inspire a ridiculous amount of thought about PoT.
no subject
I figured that Tezuka used his right hand to try to keep from rocking the boat. Not to be nice, but to keep the difference between him and his senpai from being too obvious, probably to prevent what did happen in the end.
I think Tezuka knows just exactly how good he is. And I don't see how he could help but feel that, especially at that age.
But I just don't think they're that similar. I think we're getting down to very fine points of interpretation and basic gut feeling about the characters now. Anyhow, anime-Tezuka has been a riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma to me and after all the hours of study and thought, I've only been able to pry off a bit of the crunchy enigma coating.
Pardon my rambling, but your posts seem to inspire a ridiculous amount of thought about PoT.
Your rambling is awesome. :) Please ramble whenever and for as long as you like.
no subject
See, I see that as how Oishi--and probably most people--are interpreting it, and hey, I might be wrong to disagree. But I find it hard to believe that Tezuka anticipated the outcome but didn't realize that it could be far worse for his senpai to find out afterwards. If he had played left-handed, he'd have won 6-0 instead of 6-2; not a major difference, and if people were going to be pissed off at him, they'd be pissed off either way. Finding out afterwards, probably when he played someone better or they read about his elementary champion days, makes the insult that much worse for the delay.
The way I see it, Tezuka didn't expect anything nearly so severe, and so he figured he might as well get some right-handed practice in, and let his opponents think what they like. At the most, there would have been grumbling senpai-tachi, and he wouldn't be allowed onto regulars until the usual time for freshmen. (Note that when Oishi expresses worry over how the senpai will react to getting beaten, before he even knows about the left-handed thing, Tezuka doesn't seem particularly concerned.) Neither of these would have bothered him overmuch; he's not one to need others' approval, and I don't think he cared enough about Seigaku yet to really fight the restrictions on freshmen. (The ambition for leading the club to nationals came out of his conversation with Oishi, and Yamato-buchou's inspiration led to the emotional attachment.) He would have been perfectly content to bide his time until the third-years graduated. This is where I see the similarity with Ryoma; if Tezuka hadn't made an exception for him and put him into the ranking matches, he too would have contented himself with the usual freshman things, plus asking his senpai for matches whenever possible. Granted, Ryoma's far more likely to use his "I am not right-handed!" thing to provoke, but he's never used it against his teammates in that way. Though it does get hard to judge, since I get the impression that the current Seigaku regulars are far better than the ones when Tezuka was a freshman, so Ryoma simply can't use his right hand against them--though he does use it against non-regular senpai. Also, Ryoma would probably have made it very clear that he was bored out of his mind with the grunt work, but that jives with my impression of his simply being more likely to say such things aloud than Tezuka would be, even if they're both thinking the same thing.
I guess really the main difference between the two is just that Ryoma's much more openly cocky. He can't resist poking people and pushing their buttons, unless he genuinely respects them (and even then, he'll be cheeky occasionally). Tezuka's got himself under much better control, partially because he's been taught to respect his senpai, partially because he's seen the damage that not thinking ahead can do. Tezuka also has a very strong emotional attachment to Seigaku, courtesy of Yamato, which I think is probably his first real attachment ever. Like Ryoma, he doesn't have many close friends, nor does he really relate well to people. But he learned to love Seigaku, and through that, to really care about his teammates. I think he's trying to pass this lesson on to Ryoma (at least in the manga arc; don't know about the later anime), and killing two birds with one stone as regards replacing Ryoma's fixation on beating Nanjiroh. It seems to be working; Ryoma went after Momo when he was sulking over being dropped, he actually cheered for Inui at a match, and I think a lot of his energy and will against Hiyoshi, who's supposed to be quite a good opponent but got torn to shreds, came from wanting to avenge Tezuka's injury. In the anime, he's pissed off that he has to leave his match with Atobe as a tie, and I think it's for the same reason.
*continued in next comment*
no subject
It's all about the interpretation -- there is no right or wrong.
But I find it hard to believe that Tezuka anticipated the outcome but didn't realize that it could be far worse for his senpai to find out afterwards.
That could be. Maybe he didn't think he'd get found out. Or maybe he just had bad judgement, due to being 12 years old. *g* I wouldn't be surprised if he had a sense of entitlement, though. He certainly was better than all of the other club members.
Granted, Ryoma's far more likely to use his "I am not right-handed!" thing to provoke, but he's never used it against his teammates in that way.
He did against Momo the first time they played, but he wasn't a Regular at that point. Actually, he was pretty rude to Momo before that, in a non-tennis situation. It was kind of strange.
I really enjoy seeing Ryoma progress throughout the series as he's socialized from a cheeky American boy into a cheeky Japanese boy. He learns to be part of the group, which is something he needs as much as he needs the challenge to his tennis.
I don't know if any of this refutes any of your statements. It's just how I see these two characters, and interpretations can differ even when two people discuss a mutual acquaintance in real life.
I don't think either of us is really trying to refute the other, just clarifying and discussing our own interpretations. And it wouldn't be half so interesting if they were easy to understand. :)
Understanding themselves is not something either has ever thought to do, I think.
That's a good thought.
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it's just this one:
He did against Momo the first time they played, but he wasn't a Regular at that point. Actually, he was pretty rude to Momo before that, in a non-tennis situation. It was kind of strange.
In both the manga and anime, Momo knew (and i think he told Ryuzaki-sensei about it?) that Ryoma played right-handed against him because Ryoma was aware (or at some point during their match- or probably before they started- noticed) that Momo's ankle was injured.
I like the way he said it in the manga, something along the lines of Ryoma knew about his injury and played a handicap match because he was looking out for it. :D
I think that's one of the traits that Tezuka and Ryoma share- they're both considerate about other people's feelings but would rather die than admit it. XD
(sorry for ranting ^^;;;)
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We know that Momo *thinks* Ryoma was playing right-handed to handicap himself because of Momo's ankle. But we don't actually know Ryoma's motivation. Ryoma certainly isn't deliberately mean to people who haven't earned it, but I'm not sure he's so considerate at this point in the canon. He does grow a lot along the way, though.
*continued*
Re: *continued*
i think their attitudes about tennis, about doing things right until the end, and being neither too modest nor too proud but just being honest about their skills.
the only difference i could see is Tezuka is more mature than Ryoma, and that as a Captain, he has to follow a Captain's Code of Ethics.
gah! sorry, sorry... i'm not eloquent enough. but more or less, i'm glad because you were able to put into words what i think about Buchou and Ochibi. :D
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Tezuka and Ryoma are alike in some ways, but I think they are superficial ways: their talent, their silence, their standoffishness. I don't think that their basic personalities are very similar. I think that Tezuka sees something extraordinary within Ryoma, but it's not something he sees within himself.
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In the anime, Tezuka seems so isolated. Like he won't let anyone close to him, even Oishi. I don't know *why* though. He's not exactly super-friendly in the manga, but I don't get the same sense of "I am a rock, I am an island".
I don't recall Oishi ever expressing anything other than outright disapproval of the idea, and the fact that he stays outside Ryuzaki-sensei's office, leaning against the wall, during Tezuka's talk with her instead of going in with him and voicing his support seems to indicate that he disapproved of it to begin with.
My impression was that he just stayed out of the office because this was a convo between Tezuka and Ryuzaki and it wasn't his place to be there for it.
His convo with Tezuka on the train after the match -- and I do realise that I'm working from a translation here, so I can't place too much weight on nuance -- seemed like he wasn't opposed to the match with Ryoma in and of itself, but the fact that Tezuka went all out during it, that he wasn't expecting Tezuka to do that.
The farewells really are very different. Although, I don't remember the sneakiness as Oishi's idea, originally; isn't there a bit in the manga's narration where it's referred to as Tezuka's idea to subtly inspire his players?
I don't remember seeing that, but if you turn it up, let me know. The way that Oishi seemed in charge of the situation and Tezuka's comment about his change in personality made me think it was Oishi's idea.
I admit to really loving the right-handed match between Ryoma and Tezuka in the anime; there was something very entertaining about watching two lefties play each other right-handed. And it also answered the question for me as to why Tezuka didn't switch hands against Atobe
Yes, I loved that too. And it did clear things about about the switching. Which no doubt confused a lot of people, since it was *during* the Atobe match that we learned Tezuka used to play right-handed.
I am confused, though, as to why Ryoma was so shocked by the right-handed zero-shiki; didn't he hit it right-handed against Hiyoshi?
I thought that by that time in the match, he'd switched hands. I don't have time to check right now, though.
The whole thing about being afraid of the memory of pain really hit me as something very true-sounding in a sometimes-ridiculous plot.
Yes, yes, and yes. It was so good to actually see Tezuka struggling with this. It humanized him a great deal.
Does the manga ever show his reaction to the Rikkai win? I seem to recall one of the players taunting him with the fact that his team won without him; I don't quite see why this is an insult, really. I mean, I get that it's "they don't need you to win", but isn't that a compliment?
I don't recall if it's shown; I'm not as familiar with the manga as with the anime. I suppose whether it's an insult or a compliment depends on your focus. But Tezuka is so dedicated to his team that it really does seem like a compliment, that they won't fall apart without him.
And that's where their win over Rikkai is even more significant. They are both without their captains, but Seigaku is the one that that grows stronger in that situation. (Though, frankly, I don't think Sanada would have lost if Yukimura hadn't actually been in surgery during the match. That was just too distracting for him.)
That's all the time I have for now. More replies later in the day! Thanks so much for your discussion. It's really interesting.
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Oddly enough, I got the reverse impression. Tezuka seems much more human in the anime than the manga to me. While he's no more "friendly" than in the manga, I feel like we see a lot more of his thoughts and opinions on people; it's just much more explicit, and it makes him more approachable. His unstinting support for Echizen, for instance, is much clearer in the anime, where the match gets a double-length episode, than in the manga, where it got a few pages and a short flashback, plus a telephone call with Ryuzaki-sensei. I'll have to re-read and check out the Oishi bits, as I don't remember those well enough to compare. And I might be wrong, but I feel that Tezuka does a lot more commenting on matches from the sidelines in the anime.
His convo with Tezuka on the train after the match
Looking at the manga and comparing it directly to the anime, they're almost identical (am also judging by translations here, so ICBW). The manga has Tezuka saying he'll go to the hospital, which makes sense, since he and Oishi didn't go ahead of time. The anime also has extra Tezuka lines: "my joints are nothing" and "This was a necessary match. If I didn't play seriously, it would have been meaningless. This is the only thing I can do for him." Other than that, though, there doesn't seem to be any difference, and given that Oishi definitely disapproved of the whole idea in the anime, it doesn't seem unlikely that he also disapproved in the manga, though we don't actually see that.
The way that Oishi seemed in charge of the situation and Tezuka's comment about his change in personality made me think it was Oishi's idea.
It does seem like that from the conversation, but later in the same issue, when they're seeing Tezuka off, someone asks where Echizen et al. are. Someone else responds, "At this moment, those guys have probably fallen for Tezuka's trick!" Thus, I read the earlier conversation as Tezuka having recruited Oishi to help him put these ideas in their heads, because it would be weird for Tezuka to say something like "You know, I set a record for hitting 26 falling leaves in a row my freshman year." Tezuka's comment on Oishi's change might have to do with how well Oishi threw himself into his part, or possibly how he seems to be ready to shoulder the responsibility of being captain--a reference to an off-screen conversation, perhaps?
I thought that by that time in the match, he'd switched hands.
Nope. He hits three twist serve aces to start the match, then a returnable one for no reason other than to hit the zero-shiki. He doesn't switch until after Hiyoshi brings out his Enbu tennis. It honestly shocked me that Ryoma found the zero-shiki so easy to pick up, even if he was bench coach. Maybe he just has a knack for drop shots. Note: in the anime, Tezuka's reaction to Ryoma's hitting his shot isn't shown, but in the manga, he seems mildly startled, thinking "Echizen...!!" Once again, for some reason, Tezuka seems more involved in this match in the manga than in the anime.
I don't think Sanada would have lost if Yukimura hadn't actually been in surgery during the match.
I have major issues deciding whether I like the anime or manga version better in this one. I really like the anime, because it makes the loss much more believable. Sanada's not as overwhelming an opponent as he is in the manga, and Ryoma's awakening during the match, thanks to his various opponents plus Tezuka, was really well done, as was Sanada's preoccupation with Yukimura. On the other hand, I don't like that Ryoma's apparently the only one in the anime who can reach self-actualization; it seems that that's his special power that nobody else can touch. Obviously, subsequent episodes of the anime may contradict this impression; but even if they do, it just doesn't make sense that Sanada would not have reached it already, as he has in the manga. Also, I could really do without Sanada's Howard Dean-esque scream. And the exploding tennis court. And the Cool Drive totally pwns the Cyclone Smash, anyway. And using the Wind part of Sanada's game against his Fire is just so classic. Grrr.
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The anime is a lot more fleshed out in general, so I feel like I get to know the characters better there than in the manga. We don't really see a lot of Tezuka in non-tennis situations in either medium, though. It's hard to know what's going on in that pretty little head of his. *g*
Other than that, though, there doesn't seem to be any difference, and given that Oishi definitely disapproved of the whole idea in the anime, it doesn't seem unlikely that he also disapproved in the manga, though we don't actually see that.
The train scenes are very similar, yes. Mostly, I'm basing my "approving-or-neutral" in the manga theory on Oishi being there when Tezuka talks to Ryuzaki and on not seeing Oishi trying to talk Tezuka out of the match beforehand.
I don't think it's provable either way, obviously, so it just comes down to interpretation. But I don't think we use the anime to make inferences about the manga, since the manga came first. It's like using the Harry Potter movies to make inferences about the books.
It does seem like that from the conversation, but later in the same issue, when they're seeing Tezuka off, someone asks where Echizen et al. are. Someone else responds, "At this moment, those guys have probably fallen for Tezuka's trick!"
That's a different translation than the one I have! The line is given as "Those guys will definitely fill the void left by Tezuka's absence." Which would explain our confusion over this. :)
He hits three twist serve aces to start the match, then a returnable one for no reason other than to hit the zero-shiki.
That's quite incredible for him to do right-handed! I'm not surprised that he can hit the shot though. Tezuka used it when they played each other so it's possible he's been practicing it since then. And, bizarrely, in the very first episode, Ryoma hits a shot that stops dead on the court and makes everyone faint with its amazingness. (He never uses it again, though.)
Once again, for some reason, Tezuka seems more involved in this match in the manga than in the anime.
Yes, he seems more expressive in the manga.
I think I liked the Sanada-Ryoma match better in the manga. In the anime, the effects seemed to get out of control and it seemed a bit silly to me. In the manga, I could believe that Ryoma really deserved to win the match.
Manga translation mystery solved!
"At this moment, those guys have probably fallen for Tezuka's trick" is from the first version.
"Those guys will definitely fill the void left by Tezuka's absence" is from the second version.
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asdf;aslfj HOLY SHIT DISCUSSION. I LOVE IT WHEN YOU DO THIS. And I can't read anything now because I am going to bed, so I won't get to this until tomorrow night at the earliest, and everyone else will have said everything I want to say, and my squee will be late, SO I AM SQUEEING IN ADVANCE NOW.
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I accept your advance squee and look forward to your insights!
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I've always considered anime!Oishi and manga!Oishi completely different people... possibly this is because I've only started keeping track of the raw geniuses recently and also down't know where to download it. But the difference is amazing, and reading about the different levels of Tezuka's passion is also very interesting. I think in one of the rajipuri everyone was laughing at Kondou because Oishi had "become just like him", which explains the wealth of merchandise sending him up (in dresses)... and it seems to me that manga!Oishi would never be caught dead in a leotard. Which makes me wonder... how much do you factor merchandising, songs and the extra material like rajipuri into your interpretations?
I'd better go find these scanlations because it also breaks my heart that Ryoma is the only one supporting his Oishi-fukubuchou in the Oishi-Tez match. His devious side also fascinates me... we saw a little bit of the sly competitiveness in the bowling episode, but I think I'm one of the few who reads into the filler crack episodes. I've another question too... I'm totally with
I can't wait to see what everyone else has to say!
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And I completely forgot about the bowling episode; yes, Oishi can be sneaky, I suppose. Though that incident has Ryuzaki-sensei written all over it to me. And I totally consider the filler episodes fair game (at least, the non-chibi ones). For instance, take ep 71, the infamous Date! episode. The most telling thing in the whole story, to me, is Inui's series of phone calls to Tezuka. It's clear that we're supposed to laugh at how Inui thinks Tezuka will be interested, since this does concern the welfare of his teammates (and is ii data!), but Tezuka keeps hanging up. Except: Tezuka listens to everything Inui tells him before ending the call. He doesn't actually hang up until Inui asks for his opinion. Oh, Tezuka Kunimitsu, gossip is so your guilty pleasure. And Inui probably knows it, which is why he's keeping you posted.
And now I really am going to bed.
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Heheh, so yes... I never thought of it that way, you're right... I always had it pinned as Tez being incredibly rude, but now I think of it, it's just his way of flirting. >;3 Another of Tez's secrets exposed!!
The reason I mention non-anime 'canon' is because for me, the one thing that completely summarises my characterisation of Oishi down to a T is his voice message, the one where he's drying his hair and singing to himself. And it's supported by all the other crack, I call him leotard!Oishi... the sunrise walk up the mountain, bringing watermelons over to Eiji's house, running around like James Bond in the date episode... all of these Oishies are kind of far removed from what I percieve of the manga Oishi, yet some of the facts about manga Oishi support leotard Oishi so well... the anxiety tablets he takes before important matches, his Christian Reese Lassen posters... (Lassen's kind of tacky, or is it just me?)
argh, getting kicked off computer~! But more later!
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I love what you say about Tezuka and Inui's phone calls. I think it's part of the game they play, the one where Inui talks and talks and Tezuka pretends not to be listening. *g*
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how much do you factor merchandising, songs and the extra material like rajipuri into your interpretations?
I don't. Anime tv series and manga only, not the movies, not the musicals, not the character songs, not rajipuri. Which isn't to say that those things don't colour my characterizations sometimes, but it's not "official" to me.
I don't think Ryoma really was supporting Oishi there -- more that he was having some cranky 12-year-old reaction to Tezuka's return. It seems more like a way of not supporting Tezuka, maybe because he hasn't yet seen Tezuka prove himself. Or maybe he's ticked off at Tezuka for leaving at all, so this is "punishment".
You know, I didn't read past the end of the match to see Eiji's reaction this time around and I don't remember it very well. I shall try to do that later, when I have time.
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Even without reading the manga, I agree with your characterization of anime-Tezuka as broken. He's much more "toast" in the anime, perhaps typified by the filler episode in which everyone follows Momo-chan & Tachibana An on their "date-o" -- Tezuka keeps hanging up on Inui. Good christ, get a sense of humor, Buchou! Or some motivation other than "it's all for the team" -- how about what *you* want?
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Anime-Tezuka is so difficult for me to understand. I'm never sure just what his motivations really are. Or what he really wants, for himself.
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thanks so much for sharing your thoughts~! =^__^=
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alos, during the first ova ep., oishi challenges ryoma for the regular spot for zengoku cause of his wrist, the same scinario happens like the manga with oishi challenges tezuka, except that ryoma had woV (or was runner up, i don't know,) the us open and the nationals have already started. i also must agree wiht you on the last paragraph.
also, when reading the manga, you can learn so much more than the anime. all the anime does is show how ryoma is evolving, yet the manga shows you the determination seigaku has since it is tehir dream to make it to the zengoku taikai.