prillalar | The owls are not what they seem.

I suspect fowl play.

Er, sorry...

But I really don't have any idea how the owls work, nor why the Ministry doesn't just owl the people they want to track, with a tracer attached. It's a major plot hole.

No, no, no, you're not supposed to say "it's a major plot hole"! You're supposed to come up with a well-reasoned and plausible explanation that fits well within existing canon that I can then take advantage of.

Sheesh, what's the point of LJ if I can't get other people to do my thinking for me? *g*

Sheesh, what's the point of LJ if I can't get other people to do my thinking for me? *g*

Well, quite. (http://www.livejournal.com/users/yonmei/115243.html)

Cool! Let the fanwanking begin!

Maybe there's some kind of wacky privacy rule enforced by postal magicks so things like that *can't* happen (though I'd say that sounds far more American/libertarian than anything the British would come up with)?

Yes, I'm a Buffy fan. I'm *used* to fanwanking. *g*

Some kind of "consent to be owled" thing? Sirius could be in a strict "don't owl me" setting (enchanted himself?), except for individual, pre-arranged owls, of whom Hewig was one?

The more consistent one was: Hedwig couldn't tell Harry where Sirius was, so does it matter that all enchanted (actually, I'd go for a special magical breed of owls myself) owls could find him, if nobody could find out where they found him? Yes, they could put some kind of tracker on the owl, but, given wizardly predelictions for secret locations (exactly why was the Black family home so hard to find?), I'd imagine that a resistance to such tracking devices was intrisic to the owl system. Animals in the Potterverse, after all, can have their own powerful, humans-no-go magic. All of which is better evidence that the trick is in the owls' own magic, not wizard magic put on them.

Also, I am now hugely amused at comtemplating the notion of wizard spam. Sirius, hidden out halfway across the world, and still getting offers for credit cards from Gringott's.

Some kind of "consent to be owled" thing? Sirius could be in a strict "don't owl me" setting (enchanted himself?), except for individual, pre-arranged owls, of whom Hewig was one?

Except in GoF he tells Harry to use random school owls, in case someone is tracking Hedwig.

One thing I forgot when I was writing the initial post:

In OotP, not only is Hedwig attacked while delivering mail, but Umbridge is able to somehow stop the mail for everyone at school, so it can be read by her first.

So, there must be some sort of control over when and where the post is delivered, at least at Hogwarts.

Wizard spam, yes! Which, given wizardly anti-spam devices, is probably delivered (or attempted to be delivered) by irritating birds that no one cares about. Like pigeons. Or starlings. Gosh, I wonder where I got this idea from.... it just came into my head like someone speaking to me....

We must be experiencing telepathy. Or, wait, what's that thing I used to do before I got online... oh, yeah, talking to people in the same room as me.

I *love* the idea of wizard spam. Oh, that has 1001 interesting fanfic uses.

I'd go for "enchanted" or "specially bred," myself, as to why the owls can find people.

How Hedwig (and others) would know where to deliver, I'm not sure, unless it would be inherent in the spell for her (or any owl) to be able to find those who want to be found/are willing to be found by that correspondent. In the case of Hermione and the Witch Weekly-inspired letters, Hermione wasn't expecting the mail, so it wasn't precisely that she didn't want to hear from such people, and so there was no barrier against them at that time.

We can infer that there's something working along those lines, though, because Hedwig was interfered with in OotP. We presume the interference was by Umbridge in her effort to find Sirius or evidence of communication between Harry and Sirius. If she could have directly sent an owl, she would have done so, but instead she tried to tamper with an owl already in flight and one that was "authorized."

Weak, probably, but it's the best I can do for now.

and what's to stop enemies from sending something nasty via owl post? I mean, if you can enchant a piece of paper to scream and then burst into flames, you could enchant (one assumes) an object to explode, to release a noxious gas, etc. Or! Why not just owl a port key to wanted to criminals? Open the letter and bam, you're in a holding cell in the MoM.

The question that's been bothering me is: why, if they can instantaneously trace the use of magic by students (and the identity of said student), can't they also track the casting of Unforgivables, and the identity of the caster? All those Death Eaters who claimed to be controlled by the Imperious wouldn't have a leg to stand on. (Which leads to the next question: How fucking stupid is the Ministry if they just accept someone's word, "Oh, I wasn't *really* a Death Eater, I was being controlled by a curse." What's the use of having a truth serum if they never use it?)

Well, you could say that the underage magic thing is a spell they put on underage wizards/ witches, which is then lifted, on the grounds that adults should be free of such tracking, when the wizard/ witch leaves school/ reaches 18. And, in fact, it wouldn't even need to be put on wizardlings before they went to school: no such decree came from the Ministry when Harry did his unconscious magic (melting the glass on the snake enclosure, or the other things that are hinted at in pre-book 1 space). Maybe it's carried in the "come to Hogwarts" letter.

It's like, you could electronically tag everyone, because after all, everyone's got a kitchen knife and could stab someone to death tomorrow. However, we don't do that because it's an infringement of civil liberties.

Maybe it's carried in the "come to Hogwarts" letter.

I like that theory.

It's like, you could electronically tag everyone, because after all, everyone's got a kitchen knife and could stab someone to death tomorrow. However, we don't do that because it's an infringement of civil liberties.

*nods* True, but I don't get the impression the MoM is big on respecting civil liberties, especially after how they treated Harry in OotP (attempting to deny him legal counsel, etc).

Maybe it's carried in the "come to Hogwarts" letter.

Or their wands.

Maybe the wands are all registered.

Here's a question: before he gets his wand, Harry (and Neville) can do unconcious magic. And wands work even when they're broken. So why can't wizards and witches do magic without a wand? Potions and charmed items will work without them... hmmm

As for the owl question, it's a tough one, Hal. The owls also travel amazing distances overnight, so I wonder if owls can teleport, too?

Here's a question: before he gets his wand, Harry (and Neville) can do unconcious magic. And wands work even when they're broken. So why can't wizards and witches do magic without a wand? Potions and charmed items will work without them... hmmm

I wonder if their training is so focused on using the wand as a focus/magnifier of power that they become so dependent on it that their non-wand-using magical skills atrophy.

Here's a question: before he gets his wand, Harry (and Neville) can do unconcious magic. And wands work even when they're broken. So why can't wizards and witches do magic without a wand? Potions and charmed items will work without them... hmmm

I wonder if their training is so focused on using the wand as a focus/magnifier of power that they become so dependent on it that their non-wand-using magical skills atrophy.

I was quite wondering this myself, in point of fact. I'm re-reading the series, yet again, and in Book One Snape goes on about 'foolish-wand waving' and yet still relies on his to clean up the children's messes. You've got children getting dropped on their heads, regrowing their hair overnight, and all sorts of things with nary a wand in sight. Is a wand simply a channel for power that's already present?

Also, while on the subject of children getting *marked* by their power, has anybody come up with a plausible explaination as to why no Muggles have happened to fall through the barrier at 9 3/4 yet? I mean surely not everybody is that blind?

Are wizarding children genetically different and as such the barrier 'scans' them? Is magic genetic? If so then how do the children of Muggles become magical?

Oh dear, sorry to spam your journal, just terribly curious at this point.

You've got children getting dropped on their heads, regrowing their hair overnight, and all sorts of things with nary a wand in sight. Is a wand simply a channel for power that's already present?

That's my impression. Because think of all the Muggle kids who must evidence magic somehow, and you know they're not picking up their parents' wands or something.

, has anybody come up with a plausible explaination as to why no Muggles have happened to fall through the barrier at 9 3/4 yet? I mean surely not everybody is that blind?

I thought only magical folk could go through the barrier? That it'd be solid to Muggles.

Are wizarding children genetically different and as such the barrier 'scans' them? Is magic genetic? If so then how do the children of Muggles become magical?

I think it is genetic, and that mutation allows for Muggle children (perhaps with Squibs for ancestors down the line) to become magical. After all, Mrs. Black specifically uses the word *mutant* in her diatribe (which I took to mean Tonks, though my dad argues Remus is a mutant, that the werewolf curse modifies the genetics. I don't know about that), and it's an odd word to find in a magical setting.

I thought only magical folk could go through the barrier? That it'd be solid to Muggles.

Surely we see Hermione's parents on the far side of the barrier at some point? (No, not going to go back and check through all the books to find out...) But if so, then Muggles can pass through the barrier...

Damn, you're right.

And where do the Dursleys pick Harry up at the end of OotP, where Lupin et al are waiting?

... has anybody come up with a plausible explaination as to why no Muggles have happened to fall through the barrier at 9 3/4 yet? I mean surely not everybody is that blind?

Isn't the barrier sort of, er, a wall? No Muggles pass through it because they don't know it's there. (If Hermione's parents were spied the magical side of the banner, this is why.) Who would voluntarily run full tilt into a big solid thing?

Who would voluntarily run full tilt into a big solid thing?

Have you met any eight-year-olds?

*chokes*

I was going to add something about my four-year-old cousin running smack into a wall, but that would have ruined my non-point.

Maybe.

But when Harry goes to the Ministry for the first time, they inspect and record his wand, which implies that it wasn't already on file.

Maybe they just wanted to make sure the wand registered to him and the wand he's carrying are one and the same?

I agree with this theory. I always assumed they track the wands sold at the offical wizarding shops. There is bound to be a way to get illegal wands. Shady wandmakers must make tons of galleons during war time.

*nod*

What I want to know is, who got Sirius his wand? Was it a family wand? And if so, why wasn't *that* traced? Or is it because the house is Unplottable, that even tracking won't work?

I can't remember if I read this in a fic somewhere, but I've got it fixed in my brain that Ollivander is strictly neutral, that he'll sell a wand to anyone.

He strikes me as rather shady, actually.

I don't think that the wands are registered. Or even traced, else why doesn't Hagrid get in trouble for using his?

OTOH, if they were all registered and traced and all, it wouldn't surprise me. The MoM, and really, the wizarding world in general is fucking creepy.

But doesn't Ollivander have a monopoly on wands? I bet there aren't any other wand shops in the UK...

In the UK he does, apparently.

However, both Fleur's and Krum's wands came from elsewhere, right?

And yes, I think he's neutral at best and a fairly shady character. He also remembers every wand he's sold, but the question is, would he turn that information over to the MoM without being forced?

I still hold to my original point: the registration and tracking, whether it's wizards or wands, only aplies to underage wizards.

Actually, though, it's not very accurate, is it? Because Dobby's magic got "assigned" to Harry in PoA. So it's not detecting wand use, because Dobby didn't use Harry's wand. Must be "magic in an area around a tracked wizardling". Which makes it rather unfair for Harry and Hermione and others summer-holidaying in Muggle environments: presumably juvenile Weasleys just claim it was their older brothers doing the magic.

I still hold to my original point: the registration and tracking, whether it's wizards or wands, only aplies to underage wizards.

Most likely, but don't you think it's possible to turn it back on after an adult becomes a wanted criminal? (Though this would not apply to Sirius, as his original wand was probably snapped.)

In fact, in GoF Hermione received hate mail with Bubotuber pus in it, which gives her nasty painful boils on her hands.

Your port-key question is a good one. Let's see...maybe wanted criminals scan all their mail first with Detect Magic.

Actually, why don't they owl the kids port-keys to get to Hogwarts instead of taking the train?

See, every question breeds two more questions and then they breed two more and it's like the X-Files all over again.

By commenting here I invite myself to be completely and utterly out-Pottered. Oh well. But.

The real answer to the Portkeys-to-Hogwarts is of course that Rowling probably hadn't thought of them at that point, but besides that, aren't they sort of valuable? Not the kind of thing you could send to a hundred or so eleven-year-olds, anyway.

Sent over by

musesfool.
My take is that the owls have some sort of "no tracking" charm attached for the express purpose of NOT allowing people to follow them. Otherwise, why wouldn't Dumbledore send an owl to locate Voldie and let Harry kill V in his sleep?

Hope that helps. *g*

*love* that icon.

Made by the fantaboulous

saava o'course. Gotta love it when you can combine two fandoms at once. *g*

Hee! Would be cool to have a Buffy one - "The Girl Who Lived"... :-)

I'm getting a Tara one, which I might even animate: screen 1 "the girl who lived", screen 2 "shut up, I'm in denial".

That would *still* work better for Buffy.

1) I think the owls are bred from special stock that are traditionally more prone to accepting enchantment. They sell these owls; people don't just go out and catch wild owls to send letters. There are only certain sorts of owls sold in these shops (on the extras in the DVD for example there are only like four varieties or some such. This one takes a tiny leap of faith, but imagine that they have been breeding owls for this purpose for thousands of years. They know which ones are best for the job, which ones shake the spells off or go feral. This would also open up the concept of champion bloodlines for owls. Pureblooded wizards competing at AKC-style bird shows and whatnot.)

2) The owls are brought up by specialty breeders who are experts in how to charm birds for the post. They have a NEWT in Charms. What do those people do? I am sure there is an entire career for people good at Charms to raise and periodically check up on post owls to make sure the spells are all in place.

3) The birds find people to give them their letters through a variation of the Loadstone Charm, but instead of navigating by magnetism, they navigate by setting their internal compass to the specific aura of a human.

4) The Charm used by the birds has a built in clause that disallows them to be tracked. This, since its inception, has been very controversial do to the very sort of circumstance you listed above: the criminal element. However, the breeders and caretakers of owls had a Synod in 1373 and pushed a law allowing them to insert a variation on Obfuscate into the spells used on owls. Sirius Black and his criminal cohorts are just being paranoid about their post being tracked. Anyone attempting to track the flight of a post owl will become extremely confused, fall down, and wake up in the loo three doors down from the Office of Bunged Up Sneakery in the MoM.

Excellent icon :-)

Hee, good theory. :) Hmm, what if there were a rogue breeder who put different kinds of charms on their owls? There could be this whole blackmarket thing.

Some vague guesses:

* Maybe the owls are sort of the wizarding equivalent of Muggle owls (like Kneazles are the equivalent of cats) and have inherent powers?

* Maybe, in the Potterverse, all owls are just that smart and powerful, and the Muggles just haven't figured it out yet? (OK, that one's a bit of a cop-out, because you could argue 'well, it's just that way in the Potterverse' for anything)

* Maybe the owls are under the same injunctions as their owners? So if the owner was capable of going somewhere, so could their owl? Though that still doesn't explain the OOTP thing, as Harry hadn't received Dumbledore's note then. Wild guess. Perhaps owl post is just untraceable?

I got no clue, and I'm gonna think about it. Maybe you should email J.Ro and ask her.

The owls are not what they seem.

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wands

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:)

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