prillalar | On Tezuka.

I'm rather in favour of the idea that he used to have practice matches with Yukimura and Sanada. For one thing, it would explain why they know about the FlamingBBQ!move whose name I have forgotten, while nobody on Seigaku has a clue. Perhaps he played against them in past years, but as his injury worsened and the prospect of Seigaku and Rikkai becoming serious rivals grew, they would have tapered off; Tezuka would not have wanted to give away too much information to his opponents, and Sanada and Yukimura probably felt the same.

So that's probably how Tezuka initially developed his moves and whatnot, but I agree that now he seems rather static. That's partly because of his injury limiting him too, of course. Oishi and/or Fuji say(s) something about how Tezuka trains two or three times as hard as anyone else, but they're not specific as to how.

And I strongly disagree with those who say that he doesn't see Ryouma as a rival (not you, I don't think, but I've seen this POV elsewhere). Tezuka set himself up as a rival to Ryouma to pull out his tennis, and, not being stupid, he must realize that unlocking that potential means that Ryouma will definitely become his rival. In fact, Ryouma pretty much says so at the end of the first round of Nationals, when he welcomes Tezuka back by saying he'll take the pillar of Seigaku from him. Not accept it when given, but take it right out of his hands. That must have been one of the proudest moments of Tezuka's life, to see all the risks he took starting to pay off. And having your teammate as a rival is the best of all possible worlds. Both of them can show their complete potential without worrying about compromising the team's chances. I foresee many spectacular practice matches between them over the coming years, even after Ryouma beats Tezuka for the first time. After all, Tezuka's not going to go down without a rematch, and it'll be another valuable lesson for Ryouma to learn: just because you beat someone once doesn't mean you'll beat them the next time; they too can improve. And I think Ryouma will rather like the idea of returning in kind the favour that Tezuka did him.

I'm still hoping we'll get a manga flashback to sleepaway junior tennis camp. *g*

And I strongly disagree with those who say that he doesn't see Ryouma as a rival

I think this all hinges on how you define "rival". Certainly, Tezuka has set himself up as a goal that Ryoma has to reach, an obstacle he has to overcome. And you're right -- just because Ryoma may defeat Tezuka once, that's no guarantee he'll always do so.

But I don't think I would use the word "rival" to describe them. In the context of sports/competition/battle manga/anime (the ones I've seen, anyhow), your rival is generally your peer, a member of your cohort, or close to it. And Tezuka isn't Ryoma's peer. He's an authority figure. He's set up to parallel Ryoma's father.

I think the closest thing we've seen as a rival for Ryoma in the anime is Kevin. In the manga, maybe Kintarou will be that for him. But nothing on-going.

And I think that's why I like the Tezuka-Ryoma relationship so much. They're not in competition with each other, as rivals are, not right now. Once Ryoma gets to that point, though, then maybe they can be.

God, maybe that's their golden moment. That's when they can be happy. (Talking about love now, of course. *g*) If Tezuka lets Ryoma get too far ahead of him, then he's lost him. Wow, I've got to think about this some more.

I'm quite interested to see what Ryoma's role will be in the upcoming OVAs, since my Tezuka/Ryoma interest is mainly anime-based. Probably it will be total crack, but we can still hope. :)

Oh, I didn't mean that he sees Ryouma as a rival at exactly this moment in time. What I said (and I can see, rereading, that it wasn't as clear as it might have been) is that he sees "that Ryouma will definitely become his rival." As in, he isn't good enough yet, but he will be eventually, and then the fun really begins as the two of them start pushing each other instead of Tezuka constantly pushing Ryouma (or pulling him up, I suppose). As you say, "that's when they can be happy." So, in short, I think we agree. :D

Hee! You're right -- we do agree. :)

One possible explanation of Tezuka's drive for the Nationals (besides his promise with Oishi) is the fact that taking the entire team is a challenge.

Do you mean bringing a whole team together with the skills to win their way to Nationals? I can see that. I sometimes wonder why Tezuka doesn't take a more active mentoring role with the club. He does sometimes, but it's not frequent, from what we've seen.

In fact, with the club as a whole, he's often more effective in his absence. (It's different with Ryoma, but isn't everything?) I was struck with Ryuzaki's comment in a recent (in my schedule) episode that Tezuka was necessary for them to win the Kantou tournament. Which turned out not to be the case. Or rather, the case in a different way than she meant it. His absence spurred everyone to try harder, in order not to let him down.

He seems to be a bit like that even when he's not away injured. He doesn't always come out to the court and when he does, it lights a fire in the club members.

He's still such a cipher to me. Which is good, I suppose, since it's interesting.

Does Tezuka really have the capability to effectively communicate with most of his age group? He seems to be comfortable being distant--a father figure. He inspires his team, motivates them, and provides a high standard to aim for just by his presence. Not necessarily by anything he does or says.

Maybe he can only truly relate to people on the court. Either directly, as an opponent (like Ryoma), or indirectly when people watch him (like the Atobe game).

Does Tezuka really have the capability to effectively communicate with most of his age group?

That's a good question. And I think he really doesn't. Maybe that's why he always seems broken to me. (Not broken like the victim of a ff.n angstapolooza, but broken as in "doesn't work correctly".)

Maybe he can only truly relate to people on the court.

That seems likely. Good insight!

What about Yamato-buchou?

Yamato was a significant mentor to Tezuka, but Tezuka was able to beat him in tennis when he was in his first year. It didn't seem like there was anyone in the club who could fill that role for Tezuka.

Which actually makes me wonder why he's at Seigaku in the first place. It seems like they have a good tennis reputation in the long-term, but in recent years have not done so well. You'd think Tezuka would have been better off somewhere else, like Hyotei.

If were talking about teams that Tezuka would fit in due to sheer skill, we might as well be talking Rokakku, but that's beside the point.

Tezuka is a befuddling character because he seems to exist on his own. It seems that he's the eternal father/mentor, even in his big-foreheaded youth. The truth is, Seigaku needs somebody like Tezuka- without him, they collectively might be where St. Rudolph's is now.

The question of where Tezuka's supreme authority came from is not anwered. It's just there.

That being said, it could've been his grandpa. He's seen hanging around in the background once or twice.

Did I say Rokakku? I meant Rikkaidai. Silly me.

I'm thinking more about where those teams were when little Tezuka was picking out a school to attend, rather than where they are now. Hyotei seems pretty consistantly strong, judging by their reputation, the size of their club, and their coaching.

Rikkai is an interesting one. I can't remember how long their Nationals-winning streak is. What really strikes me is that we never see a coach at their games. Is it like Fudomine, where Tachibana is the coach as well as the captain?

Nanjiroh picked Seigaku for Ryoma, I imagine because Ryuzaki is there. (I can't recall if we know for sure that the school where Ryuzaki coached Nanjiroh was also Seigaku.) Why is Tezuka there, in particular?

The truth is, Seigaku needs somebody like Tezuka- without him, they collectively might be where St. Rudolph's is now.

Yes, very true. He and Oishi have pretty much pulled Seigaku up to where they are now and Oishi never would have done it without Tezuka to take the initiative.

That being said, it could've been his grandpa.

I've been thinking about Tezuka's grandfather lately. From the tiny glimpse we get of him, he seems like quite a strong character. Without siblings, Tezuka probably naturally adopts more adult behaviour. (Ryoma doesn't, but then his father is Nanjiroh.)

I can't remember how long their Nationals-winning streak is.
Their winning streak at Nationals is two years, ever since the three demons were ichinen. However, they've won Kantou for the past fifteen years. Which must be very frustrating for Hyoutei. No wonder they were willing to help out Seigaku in the anime.

Is it like Fudomine, where Tachibana is the coach as well as the captain?
No; Tachibana was the coach only because the old coach got booted when the old club was dissolved. With such a long pedigree of wins, and being a private school with plenty of money (Fudomine's public), Rikkai must have a coach. However, I think the three demons more or less took over the team when they came, and I figure the coach generally acts as a sort of consultant, possibly supervising the non-Regulars. It is a bit strange that he's never mentioned, though. (Although St. Rudolph also has a coach, as we see in the flashback where Kisarazu and Yanagisawa are training to beat Kaidou's Snake, and he never seems to come to tournaments either.)

I can't recall if we know for sure that the school where Ryuzaki coached Nanjiroh was also Seigaku.
It is. That's alluded to during the Yamabuki match, when they're discussing the evilness of Banji. We also see it during the flashback during the match with Shinji: Nanjirou's wearing an older version of the Seigaku shirt. On another note, it seems that it was fifteen years ago that Nanjirou left Japan to head for America and his big dreams (which apparently took him about five years to fulfill, supposing that Ryouma's two when he quits pro tennis). At that time, Ryuuzaki was young and hot, tight red dress and all. She certainly didn't look old enough to be Nanjirou's mother. Yet fifteen years later, she's an old grandmother. Either she suddenly started aging really badly or someone screwed up the timeline. When the hell did she get married, have a son, get her son married, and get a granddaughter the same age as Ryouma?

Why is Tezuka there, in particular?
Perhaps he has legacy there as well? Just because his father and grandfather don't appear to play tennis doesn't mean they don't have fond memories of Seigaku. And if the tennis program was decent enough, I don't think Tezuka would particularly mind if the team doesn't end up winning, as long as he does well. There are, after all, independent tournaments like the one Ryouma was late to, where he could make a name for himself. This, of course, is before Yamato gets him all attached to Seigaku as a team. And in any case, I can't see Tezuka deciding on a school based purely on tennis; there are other factors, like academics and convenience, that also come into play.

I really love the scene in 10.5 of Kunimitsu standing next to Kunikazu. Kunimitsu is so clearly the spitting image of his grandfather--though he did appear to get his father's hair. His mother comments on the two of them both always being up early, and I get the feeling that poor Kuniharu is caught between the two of them. Kunikazu berates him for having poor reflexes, and while I'm sure Kunimitsu is always properly respectful, Kuniharu probably knows that he's not his son's role model. I think it's quite likely that Kunikazu is Kunimitsu's role model in a lot of ways, though as we see so little of them, it's hard to judge.

Two entirely random thoughts to end with: I adore Tezuka Ayana's little "Kunimitsu, you're smiling a lot more these days" remark, especially given the way the two men do a double-take and go "Really?" while Kunimitsu doesn't alter his expression one whit. Also, oh god, the names of the male Tezukas never fail to crack me up. XD

I think whatever happened to Ryuzaki in those intervening years is the same thing that happened to Obi-Wan in between Episodes 3 and 4. :)

I find it very odd that we never see a coach for Rikkai. I would expect a school like that to have a coach who would actually, you know, coach the players and support them at tournaments.

Unless they don't consider Kantou worth the coach showing up for. Like Hyotei in the prior tournament -- Atobe was giving Sakaki the results over the phone there. (Of course, if Sakaki had been there, they probably wouldn't have lost like that.)

Aw, thanks. :) I'm glad to hear it!

Psycologically, he's pretty alone too, although I think Yamato-buchou helped with that earlier on.

Isn't Fuji supposed to be able to challenge Tezuka? (and Atobe, but we all know where that one's going)

Fuji certainly could challenge Tezuka. They just don't really seem to actually play. Which seems kind of dumb to me.

I think this goes back to Fuji's lack of a drive to win, except when he wants revenge. I simply can't see Fuji ever considering anyone his rival; he simply doesn't care about tennis that much. His personal relationships are what he really values. Tezuka is just the opposite: tennis came first, and it was only after the whole Yamato-and-Oishi thing that he actually really began to care about his teammates. As such, I think he has great difficulty understanding Fuji, and certainly would never consider him his rival. (Note: I have heard about the Tezuka-Fuji match towards the end of the anime, and I do not consider that to be canon. From what I understand, it comes out of nowhere, with no basis in their characterization apart from what was hastily added in order to justify it.) Fuji understands Tezuka rather better, but I don't think he'll ever truly understand what it feels like to value tennis so highly for its own sake. So Fuji plays for his teammates first, while Tezuka (like Ryouma) plays for himself first. As such, Fuji will lose every match they play, simply because he can see that Tezuka wants victory so much and he honestly doesn't particularly care. There's a practice exercise that illustrates this point: the two of them are matched up, and Tezuka ends it incredibly quickly, after which Fuji comments, "You played seriously," in mild surprise. Tezuka just says, "Of course."

In short, if Tezuka wants a real game from Fuji, he'll have to attack Yuuta or something. :D

Ryouma, oddly enough, appears to be an exception (as always). Fuji's willing to play him quite seriously. I think this has to do with the fact that Ryouma beat Yuuta, which is when Fuji first thought it would be interesting to play him. Plus, Fuji does have his pride, and he won't allow himself to be beaten by a kouhai.

Eeep. Came to this late, sorry.

Fuji does lack a certain drive, but do you get the feeling that he gets sharper somehow in the process of the anime. From what I've seen, in the years before, the really strong people on the team consisted of him and Tezuka. Which is a bit stagnant for both of them, in that sense where they can't exactly grow. But when Ryoma comes, he becomes a catalyst to both Tezuka and Fuji- he lets Tezuka be his personal best when it comes to people and Fuji seems spurred, almost backed into a corner...

I wonder, because during the match with Kirihara (in the anime), Yumiko remarks that Fuji cares about others and that he's really kind at heart. Fandom also tends to write him into this sado-genius type of person, so we end up with a detached, manipulative Fuji when in reality he's just a little bit mischievous. He does, however, provide a nice balance to Oishi and Tezuka's seriousness.

The fact that in the "last" ranked senior class (when classes determine which high school you get into) shows that he may not necessarily be a genius, as his pride and relative competitiveness probably wouldn't have let this happen. Or he feels that being in the same class as Eiji is more important than being in a good high school? Or that he'd get in anyhow?

Attacking Yuuta... XD That would get a revenge match, which probably is different from Tezuka's definition of a "serious" match.

And this post was originally about Tezuka. :P

I've been starting to think about Fuji lately. He's nearly as much of a puzzler as Tezuka, when you come down to it. I agree that he progresses as the story goes on, not so much in ability as in, well, heart.

His characterization in fic is the most inconsistant of anybody -- sometimes he's a sadist, cruelly manipulating people, sometimes he's a delicate waif, weeping in Tezuka's arms. And sometimes he's a vampire.

Good observations re the classes. But I think Seigaku is an elevator school so he likely can pass on to the high school without too much trouble. I wonder if he has any more ambition for life than he seems to have for tennis.

I agree that he progresses as the story goes on, not so much in ability as in, well, heart.

A friend of mine was saying the other day that the reason he didn't have so much interest in Fuji was precisely because he had the same three moves all the time, no improvement whatsoever. But then he's a guy. ^^

Personally, I find that more fascinating than Ryoma suddenly achieving "self-realization" and then kicking ass.

In short, if Tezuka wants a real game from Fuji, he'll have to attack Yuuta or something. :D

Would pay to see.

I can see it going like this...

Tezuka, seemingly out of nowhere, shows up on the public courts and kicks Yuuta's ass in a match, playing very seriously.
Fuji makes comments, demands tennis, and the er 'battle' ensues
Tezuka beats Fuji, Fuji still looks confused, Tezuka tells him "You weren't playing seriously" and walks off.

Lucky Yuuta, getting to play Tezuka!

You icon has slain me

And if the tennis program was decent enough, I don't think Tezuka would particularly mind if the team doesn't end up winning, as long as he does well.

Really? Although he def cares about himself, he seems so set on things proceeding properly. I can't see him being content in a team with people that slacked off/behaved badly in any way.

The most interesting thing to me about Tezuka is that he hid his talent as a frosh and then almost quit the team after being hazed. Not giving his all + giving up. It's just about as far from Ryoma as one can get, and even when I think of present-day!Tezuka, it seems very unexpected. (If I were a djka, it would also be a big, neon "uke" sign that Tezuka would never be able to shake.) I see Tezuka as someone who ultimately doesn't want to make waves and who can be unexpectedly fragile/emotional in making decisions. The cognitive dissonance comes in when you mix in his unemotional/stoic exterior.

Of course, this doesn't anwer your wonderings (and I guess the excuse that he's the mysterious non-practicing sports prodigy cliche like Fuji won't cut it). My completely unsupported fantasy theory is that he's somehow been playing a pro-level player since he was very young. And since it's Tezuka, I'll throw in some inappropriate affection on the pro's side that Tezuka's not fully conscious of.

I can't see him being content in a team with people that slacked off/behaved badly in any way.

Yes, I agree. Which is what happened when he tried to quit the team. I wouldn't call what happened to him hazing -- he was attacked by an older student who was trying to actually disable him. (Or at least said that's what he was trying to do.)

And Tezuka's answer to him was all about how using a racquet to hurt someone was inexcusable. The affront was more to tennis than to Tezuka himself.

The difference to Ryoma there, I think, is that I think Ryoma would either have found a way out there or not have been in a position to be attacked in the first place. In the beginning, I don't think Ryoma cares about the club as a club, but just as a pool of players to defeat. (He changes, though, as time goes on.)

I see Tezuka as someone who ultimately doesn't want to make waves and who can be unexpectedly fragile/emotional in making decisions. The cognitive dissonance comes in when you mix in his unemotional/stoic exterior.

Interesting thought. I can see that. And it's not so surprising that he would choose to hide that about himself.

My completely unsupported fantasy theory is that he's somehow been playing a pro-level player since he was very young. And since it's Tezuka, I'll throw in some inappropriate affection on the pro's side that Tezuka's not fully conscious of.

Hee! Sounds good to me. I'm still hoping we'll get more flashbacks about Tezuka in the manga. I wonder how he got interested in tennis in the first place.

Yeah, you're right, hazing was the wrong word. But insult to Tezuka or insult to tennis, he was still planning on quitting the team until the captain talked to him. So... why was the 1st instinct to quit, not to tough it out and one day make the tennis club better?

It's all very vague in my head right now, but I'm thinking it's a cultural thing. Of all the PoT character stereotypes, Tezuka is the most Japanese stereotype to me... ie of all the chars, his actions are the most informed by things that are Japanese cultural/social things. Also ties into his "wanting things to proceed properly." Until you started posting about him, he's also never interested me much because he seemed such an obvious "type" of manga/anime character--"effortlessly-perfect-serious-sempai-guy." (Maybe more common in shoujo or mediocre stories?) The effortless part of that kind of character loses me. It's only the slight discrepancies (match with Atobe, freshman year events) that give him depth. The regular deciding match-ups he makes also annoy me, but I'm not sure I can pin that on his emotionalism or me not appreciating his brilliant strategy.

why was the 1st instinct to quit, not to tough it out and one day make the tennis club better?

Good question. I suppose part of it might be that he's 12. But I think you're right about a possible emotional fragility there too.

It's interesting -- talking of cultural/social things -- that we're having a very Western discussion here, identifying traits within the characters and priviliging those traits above circumstances when we try to understand the characters's actions. But that's the way we think, so it's the way we try to understand them. (More on this in response to your other comment.)

Of all the PoT character stereotypes, Tezuka is the most Japanese stereotype to me... ie of all the chars, his actions are the most informed by things that are Japanese cultural/social things.

I would agree -- and I think that's part of why I find him frustrating. It's so much more difficult for me to understand his motivations. I often feel like I'm just missing a lot of background that would help to illuminate him to me.

I actually didn't find Tezuka interesting at all either at first, except when he was with Ryoma. He always seemed like Book!Aragorn to me, a paragon whose character development is over and done with before the story even begins.

But when I tried to get at TezuRyo enough to write them, I got more and more puzzled and intrigued by Tezuka. I love him because I study him, not the other way around.

The regular deciding match-ups he makes also annoy me, but I'm not sure I can pin that on his emotionalism or me not appreciating his brilliant strategy.

The Boy regularly rants about how inadequate the Seigaku ranking method is! The only time I was annoyed with the match-ups was when Momo, Kaidoh, and Ryoma were in the same block, but that I could understand even while I was freaking out about it. But it's interesting to see the picks he makes and also interesting that he has so much power over who makes it and who doesn't.

And I meant to say -- I think you said once before that you see Tezuka quite differently than I do. If you have time and are interested, I'd love to hear more about how you see him. I'm still really trying to puzzle him out and it helps a lot to get everyone's thoughts and opinions.

Not that I'm any kind of expert on Japanese culture, but (to me) where most stories involving Tezuka fall short is that they don't seem Japanese enough. I'm not a huge stickler usually; I'm cool with everything from impossible US pop culture refs to fangirl Japanese, but with Tezuka, somehow a US/Western emotional (feminine?) approach seems to just... miss him. Drama and agonizing happens in the wrong places and is missed in others. (Of course, I also feel that PoT fics without a good dose of humor in them aren't quite in the right universe, so large grain of salt...)

I am feel very lame saying this, but I think the crack episodes are kinda helpful in that they show where the characters pushed to their extremes could "fit" into the traditional family structure--and Tezuka is the grandfather in traditional dress, henpecked and trimming bonsai trees.

I can see Tezuka living his life: properproperproper--and them (seemingly) out of nowhere he will do something passionate and nonsensically obstinate like the match with Atobe. It will be more meaningful, of course, if what he does is almost certainly doomed to failure, which will make it purer and more aesthetically beautiful... like ephemeral cherry blossoms on the breeze etc etc.

Not that I'm any kind of expert on Japanese culture, but (to me) where most stories involving Tezuka fall short is that they don't seem Japanese enough.

This is something I've thought a lot about, not Tezuka in particular, but manga/anime fanfic in general.

For English language fanfic, the peer group -- authors and audience -- is overwhelmingly Western, and largely North American. We all have varying degrees of understanding of Japanese culture. And when we interpret the source and each other's fanworks, we can't help but do so from our Western perspective.

So I think that making our fanworks too faithful to Japanese culture would make them less accessible to the greater part of the audience. I'm not talking about completely Westernizing them -- I don't like that and I do do a bunch of research when I write, to try to avoid blunders.

But ultimately, I can't make the characters Japanese enough simply because I don't have the knowledge and understanding necessary to do so.

insaneneko recently posted translations of a couple of serious TezuRyo doujinshi. One I really loved and felt like it really helped my understanding of Tezuka and of the pairing. The other was just opaque to me, I couldn't understand the motivations, the emotions, the actions.

Specifically, for Tezuka, if I can't make the readers identify with him, if I can't identify with him, then the fic won't communicate anything.

I've tried but failed to articulate why I think this approach is fine for fan fiction but not for pro fiction. Maybe another day I'll have more luck with that.

One book that's helped me a lot is The Geography of Thought: How Asians and Westerners Think Differently...and Why by Richard Nisbett. Not just for the specific information about the two groups (the book deals mainly with North America and East Asia), but also for kind of expanding my ignorance. For showing me where we make assumptions about our way of thinking. (I do a lot of reading about the brain and thought and consciousness and now I feel like I have to re-read everything and re-evaluate it in light of this new insight.)

I like what you say about the crack episodes! I don't think I'd go that far with the chibi episodes, but certainly the regular crack episodes are illuminating for me. I tend to decide how much to weight them by the tone of what I'm writing -- the lighter the fic, the more I use the crack characterizations.

Really? Although he def cares about himself, he seems so set on things proceeding properly. I can't see him being content in a team with people that slacked off/behaved badly in any way.
That's what I meant by the program being "decent enough." No slacking or anything like that, people who were serious about the game, but who simply weren't capable of going all the way and winning Nationals. I'm going on my interpretation that Tezuka didn't initially care about the team except insofar as they might help him--much the same attitude that Ryouma enters Seigaku with, actually. As such, he wouldn't have rejected the idea of going to Seigaku just because they hadn't been doing too well lately. Ryuuzaki's got a good reputation as a coach, after all, and as long as he got some good training, Tezuka didn't give a damn whether the team won Nationals or not. It was Oishi and Yamato who changed his mind about that.

That makes sense, and it certainly fits with him wanting to quit the team when it seems like they're not "decent enough."

But I can't quite make it fit with him hiding his ability at 1st. That couldn't have been helping him to improve in any way. Was he just being prudent because he saw in the 1st day that the older kids would hassle him? Being respectful? Being cocky like Ryoma, and saving his real power for a worthy opponent? It doesn't seem like he'd be getting much benefit from the coaching if he doesn't stand out or show his true skill.

On Tezuka.

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