HP Minutiae

[prillalar]

I'm amassing background for a story and so I've been reading. Re-reading, actually. I've finished PoA, I've started OotP, and I'm reading bits and pieces from GoF. A few things that came to mind:

* In PoA, Sirius has been trying the whole book through to kill Peter. But when it comes down to it, both he and Remus try to do the job. And thinking about it now, it surprises me that Remus was so nonchalant about it.

"Not at all, Padfoot, old friend," said Lupin, who was now rolling up his sleeves. "And will you, in turn, forgive me for believing you were the spy?"

"Of course," said Black, and the ghost of a grin flitted across his gaunt face. He, too, began rolling up his sleeves. "Shall we kill him together?"

"Yes, I think so," said Lupin grimly.

...

Black and Lupin stood shoulder to shoulder, wands raised.

"You should have realized," said Lupin quietly, "if Voldemort didn't kill you, we would. Good-bye, Peter."

I can easily understand why Sirius plans to kill Peter himself. I can understand why Remus would *want* to. But still, I would have expected Remus to want Peter brought to justice, especially so that the truth could come out. I'm puzzled.

* In GoF, when they're taking the Portkey to the World Cup, Mr Weasley asks Mr Diggory if anyone else is coming. "No, the Lovegoods have been there for a week already and the Fawcetts couldn't get tickets," said Mr. Diggory. Soooooo, if the Lovegoods are in the area, maybe they're close enough for a little Ron/Luna summer romance.

I don't *ship* Ron/Luna, but I'm fond of awkward fumblings between them.

* In OotP, I was struck by one scene in Grimmauld Place, where the portrait of Mrs Black had been screaming out in the hall, driving everyone mad. Once she got calmed down, Mrs Weasley went out in the hall and screamed at people. It made me smile.

* Just why was Hermione at Grimmauld Place all summer long?

Comments

[musesfool.livejournal.com]

But still, I would have expected Remus to want Peter brought to justice, especially so that the truth could come out. I'm puzzled.

I think Remus was caught up in the moment - he's managed to retain enough calm/control to get Sirius to tell the story, but then he's all, "Yes! Let's kill the bastard!"

Which, of course, makes no sense for him to be, and is just ridiculously stupid.

but I think joy at seeing Sirius again and learning he was not guilty, and so having to completely alter his worldview left him a little off-balance.

Otoh, it's just a really big plot/characterization hole. *g*

I don't *ship* Ron/Luna, but I'm fond of awkward fumblings between them.

Ah, I do ship Ron/Hermione, but I like the possibilities Ron/Luna opens up. And Luna/Harry...

Ack. Get the plot bunnies away from me. I don't want to write the kids...

Just why was Hermione at Grimmauld Place all summer long?

having a torrid threesome with Sirius and Remus.

[prillalar]

but I think joy at seeing Sirius again and learning he was not guilty, and so having to completely alter his worldview left him a little off-balance.

Yeah, I think that's the best way to go. And it's not like he's a marshmallow -- I believe he was totally capable of killing Peter. Maybe he also was feeling reckless because he'd been exposed as a werewolf to the kids. Hmm, maybe since he didn't take his potion, he wasn't thinking clearly.

Just why was Hermione at Grimmauld Place all summer long?

having a torrid threesome with Sirius and Remus.

Oh dear God sweet Jesus Christ Carl help me, NO.

I'm just going to go read some Hermione/Draco badfic now and try to forget you ever said that.

[musesfool.livejournal.com]

And it's not like he's a marshmallow -- I believe he was totally capable of killing Peter. Maybe he also was feeling reckless because he'd been exposed as a werewolf to the kids. Hmm, maybe since he didn't take his potion, he wasn't thinking clearly.

A combination of all three.

And wizards seem awfully okay with that kind of personal vengeance, you know?

having a torrid threesome with Sirius and Remus.

Oh dear God sweet Jesus Christ Carl help me, NO.

Oh, come on! I can't be the only one with a sekrit Remus/Sirius/Hermione kink.

In fact, I think you want to write it. You know you do. *g*

that's why she was able to tell her parents that staying at 12GP was educational.

I'm just going to go read some Hermione/Draco badfic now and try to forget you ever said that.

hee!

I also have a thing for D/Hr, but only the good stuff... of which there is sadly little.

[prillalar]

Oh, come on! I can't be the only one with a sekrit Remus/Sirius/Hermione kink.

Oh, I think it's entirely possible. :)

Anyway, Remus would never get involved in a kinky threesome with an under-aged girl. Sirius, on the other hand... How about Harry/Hermione/Sirius? No, I'm sure Sirius wouldn't either. Unless he were bored.

It's funny -- to me, Remus is decidedly gay. Usually, I happily make most everyone I can bi (well, not all at the same time). But Remus, I just can't see as anything but gay. I'm not sure why.

[darkkitten1.livejournal.com]

How about Harry/Hermione/Sirius? No, I'm sure Sirius wouldn't either. Unless he were bored.

*snerk*

It's funny -- to me, Remus is decidedly gay.

I wouldn't disagree with you there, though I've seen Remus/Hermione done beautifully. It fits. And Sirius is the one who ignores girls in canon, but still strikes me as bi.

I think JKR has a massive crush on Sirius and won't let other women near him. *g* Hey, that's why she killed him! "If I can't have him, no one can!"

[penknife.livejournal.com]

It's funny -- to me, Remus is decidedly gay. Usually, I happily make most everyone I can bi (well, not all at the same time). But Remus, I just can't see as anything but gay. I'm not sure why.

To me too, although I've read some good Remus/f stories. And I'm not sure why either. Subtext, maybe -- although I know that the fact he's a werewolf is entirely sufficient explanation for the way he so often seems set apart from the other characters, there's still something about his situation and his attitude about it that may be what's pinging my gaydar. Hmm.

[zoerayne]

Oh, come on! I can't be the only one with a sekrit Remus/Sirius/Hermione kink.

Not the only one. At least not after I read fabularasa's SS/SB stories, wherein I discovered that Remus/Hermione can be extremely tantilizing. And Sirius...well, Sirius is like Cristal. He goes with anything, even (maybe especially) breakfast. [eg]

I also have a thing for D/Hr, but only the good stuff... of which there is sadly little.

I'd love some recs for the good stuff. The closest I've found is only temporarily D/Hr (though good, IMO). Email me (zoerayne at slashdom dot com)?

[contrariwise.livejournal.com]

I can easily understand why Sirius plans to kill Peter himself. I can understand why Remus would *want* to. But still, I would have expected Remus to want Peter brought to justice, especially so that the truth could come out. I'm puzzled.

Maybe I'm reaching, but it was a full moon, and he hadn't taken his wolfsbane... he could've been more susceptible to homicidal impulses.

[prillalar]

Maybe I'm reaching, but it was a full moon, and he hadn't taken his wolfsbane... he could've been more susceptible to homicidal impulses.

If you're reaching, I blame JKR, not you. :) I think that's about as good an explanation as we can hope for.

And maybe I'm just too invested in my own fanon Remus. I think we all layer things onto canon and sometimes it's hard to remember which bits are ours and which are JKR's.

[penknife.livejournal.com]

But still, I would have expected Remus to want Peter brought to justice, especially so that the truth could come out. I'm puzzled.

Well, Remus obviously isn't thinking clearly from the time he goes tearing off to the Shrieking Shack without taking the potion. I think it's been so much of a shock, first learning that Peter is alive, and then seeing Sirius again, and then understanding what really happened all those years ago, that his normal self-control is just not there. He's not thinking about the consequences of his actions. Remus does have a temper, I think; it's just that most people never see it.

Also, there's the question of what Remus was intending to do once he got the the Shrieking Shack and confronted Sirius, assuming Sirius really was a murderer. If he meant to bring Sirius to justice, the sensible thing would have been to bring some of the other teachers with him for backup, no? I wonder if he doesn't mean to kill Sirius, both to avenge James and Lily's deaths and because it's probably kinder than sending him back to Azkaban. And then when the traitor turns out to be Peter, he's already steeled himself to violence. Hmm.

Just why was Hermione at Grimmauld Place all summer long?

Possibility the first: because it's safer, given that she doesn't have Harry's protection from harm when she's at home. Now that she's mixed up in the fight against Voldemort, she's probably better off surrounded by the order than off with people who don't even know there's a war on.

Possibility the second: because it would drive her absolutely insane to know that terribly important things were going on somewhere else and she didn't even know what they were.

[prillalar]

Also, there's the question of what Remus was intending to do once he got the the Shrieking Shack and confronted Sirius, assuming Sirius really was a murderer. If he meant to bring Sirius to justice, the sensible thing would have been to bring some of the other teachers with him for backup, no? I wonder if he doesn't mean to kill Sirius, both to avenge James and Lily's deaths and because it's probably kinder than sending him back to Azkaban. And then when the traitor turns out to be Peter, he's already steeled himself to violence. Hmm.

You know, I *never* considered that. *lights come on* Good thoughts.

I wonder how much that's also mixed up with Remus's remorse that he's not told anyone Sirius is an animagus. If he takes care of this himself, then that won't have to come to light.

It's very grim, regardless. When it came right down to it, I wonder if he would have been able to go through with it. *ponders*

[darkkitten1.livejournal.com]

Well, Remus obviously isn't thinking clearly from the time he goes tearing off to the Shrieking Shack without taking the potion.

The potion lapse! I still don't see enough *anywhere* to justify Remus forgetting that. How could he *ever*? Poor Lupin is being wronged by JKR's plot needs. (Unless there's some justification I missed...)

I agree about his temper.

I think you really have an interesting idea here:

Also, there's the question of what Remus was intending to do once he got the the Shrieking Shack and confronted Sirius, assuming Sirius really was a murderer. If he meant to bring Sirius to justice, the sensible thing would have been to bring some of the other teachers with him for backup, no?

Indeed.

I wonder if he doesn't mean to kill Sirius, both to avenge James and Lily's deaths and because it's probably kinder than sending him back to Azkaban.

That's a great question and really intriguing answer. Re kindness: Sirius wasn't going back to Azkaban, it was the Dementor's kiss and destruction of his soul this time, do not pass go, wasn't it? So killing him would very much appear to be a kindness.

I imagine Lupin expected Sirius to die in Azkaban, at least putting an end to the whole thing (as far as he knew). It must have been rather awful that he didn't.

[prillalar]

The potion lapse! I still don't see enough *anywhere* to justify Remus forgetting that. How could he *ever*? Poor Lupin is being wronged by JKR's plot needs. (Unless there's some justification I missed...)

This brings up a question that I've struggled with for a long time. Do we ever get to say, hey, that's not in character even if it is in the canon?

It's more applicable, I think, to long-running TV shows with numerous writers, but obviously we're questioning here as well.

Do we need to justify Remus forgetting or are we allowed to gloss over that? I think it's problematic to pick and choose, but still... Hmm.

[franzeska]

I think it's totally legitimate to recognize that something does not fit with what an author has previously told us. Do we choose to call it OOC? Do we choose to expand our understanding of Remus' character? I think either is a valid response.

[penknife.livejournal.com]

Do we ever get to say, hey, that's not in character even if it is in the canon?

I'd be much more tempted to gloss over something that seems out of character as bad writing on a TV series or in a comic book series. I'm currently watching Magneto fans have apoplectic fits over an apparently dreadful and stupid plotline in the current X-Men comics, and I agree that at some point you just have to say "he did that because ... oh, hell, because the writers were on crack, okay?"

In this case, though, when it's a major plot point in the first book where Remus appears, I think we have to take it as part of Remus's basic characterization. He's a very calm, in-control person who has a buried reckless streak, and who doesn't always make the right decision in a crisis.

I suspect he remembered the potion as he was tearing off to find Sirius and thought there wasn't time. The shock of finding out the truth was probably enough to drive the idea out of his mind at least temporarily. And then leaving the Shrieking Shack ... well, that's the really stupid moment. That's when he should remember.

But I think at that moment his head is firmly in the past, where the potion doesn't exist and he's safe with Sirius. And he is, in a very limited sense. Sirius won't let him hurt the kids. But it's still a bad, bad mistake. Which I think is one of the themes of PoA -- that sometimes even basically good adults make mistakes that have serious consequences.

[darkkitten1.livejournal.com]

This brings up a question that I've struggled with for a long time. Do we ever get to say, hey, that's not in character even if it is in the canon? ...(snip)... Do we need to justify Remus forgetting or are we allowed to gloss over that? I think it's problematic to pick and choose, but still... Hmm.

This issue goes to the heart of how the fanfic game is played, IMO! *grins*

The picking and choosing thing bothers me; I take it as a kind of challenge to adhere to canon no matter what. So I lean toward the "must justify it regardless" camp.

But I still whine and complain when I think canon problems are authorial lapses and not character ones. And though I may accept the course of events in my fic, I don't think I have to alter my overall concept of Lupin's character, as IMO the problem is really on JKR's head and not Remus's.

[musesfool.livejournal.com]

I wonder if he doesn't mean to kill Sirius, both to avenge James and Lily's deaths and because it's probably kinder than sending him back to Azkaban. And then when the traitor turns out to be Peter, he's already steeled himself to violence. Hmm.

Yeah, I believe Remus fully intended to dispatch Sirius himself, both to avenge James, Lily and Peter, and to save Sirius from the dementors' kiss. It's a function of that lingering/deep-seated loyalty to Sirius which I believe plays a part in his reluctance to tell Dumbledore about the map/passages/Padfoot etc.

[jessabelle2x.livejournal.com]

I always assumed Lupin's actions were a combination of being caught up in the adrenaline of the events, but also to show that Lupin can be a man of action and someone to be reckoned with, since most of the time he's calm and looking worn and weary. So even though a lot of people may take for granted that he's weak or a pacifist, *we* know he can and will kick ass when necessary.

I caught the Lovegood connection when listening to OotP the second time-had the same Ron/Luna thoughts, and wondered if she won't be hanging out with them some next summer if she's in the area.

[prillalar]

Remus Lupin, Man of Action! Good point -- maybe if we weren't always writing him with Sirius, we'd emphasize that more.

[franzeska]

It's interesting how a particular pairing can produce a particular interpretation of a character. S/R, while producing plenty of good fics and plenty of diverse fics, does tend to extrapolate from canon in similar directions. I'm not a fan of the pairing[1], so I really tend to notice it. Going back to canon, I think I could perfectly well extrapolate in a different direction and make Remus completely straight. Sirius tends to stay a bit more similar (IMO) across pairings. Remus often has a similar portrayal when he's with Snape, but writers of other Remus pairings go in totally different directions. (Of course, it's been ages since I read much Remus fanfic, so I don't have any good examples to back this up with, so it's pretty much waffly personal opinion.)


[1] I know, I know, saying this around S/R shippers is worse than saying I don't like H/D around H/D shippers, but I've just never gotten into it. I like fics that have a lot of plot and aren't 140% on the angst-o-meter and I don't tend to find that with S/R. If anyone wants to try to change my mind, feel free.

[prillalar]

I feel that with R/S the canon has really closed in around it, making it hard to go in many different directions. It's all leading to the same place so unless you want to be AU, you're constricted by the eventual outcome. The knowledge of Sirius's death is going to hang over those stories, even if they're set much earlier. Actually, over any story about Sirius.

And feel free to say whatever you want about the pairing. :) De gustibus and all that. I'm actually quite surprised that I'm getting so into it.

Here's a good one:

[jothra]

Loads of plot, not way up on the angst, *and* you said you enjoyed the idea of a resurrection fic down below there. If you haven't seen it before, go read Beyond the Veil, by Helene.
http://www.brightwanderer.net/writing.shtml (Scroll down a bit.)

It's fabulous!
(Sorry about sticking my nose in, but I couldn't help myself...)

[penknife.livejournal.com]

I imagine so. I think we see that Remus can be pretty hot-headed when pushed far enough. It's just that since Sirius Black wins a Darwin Award for Running Off Half-Cocked, Remus often winds up standing around repeating "Sirius, wait!" at intervals.

[darkkitten1.livejournal.com]

Sirius Black wins a Darwin Award for Running Off Half-Cocked

*splutters all over monitor* Oh dear, that is perfect. Hee!

[musesfool.livejournal.com]

This is a beautiful summing up of the Sirius/Remus (or Sirius-Remus, if you prefer) relationship. *g*