prillalar | Stargate and deep thought.

Stargate and deep thought.

I link you to: Multiverse 2004: The Many Worlds Space Show Crossover Ficathon. kestrelsan, may I please have permission to sign up?

Continuing in the Space Show vein, I have a Stargate question to pose to you:

What are the major themes of Stargate: SG-1?

I've been thinking about some of my fandoms and their themes and it occurred to me that I didn't have any idea, really, about Stargate.

Co-operation with others? That seems to be emphasized in an off-world way, but not so much here at home, despite the way they harass the Langarans about it.

Aliens are people too? Certainly, Daniel preached this one. Except when the aliens were Goa'uld.

Too much technology can be a bad thing? Yeah, mostly. What with the replicators and all.

Snakes are bad? Yup. Well, except for the Tok'ra. Only maybe they're not too nice either.

Frankly, I'm stumped. I'm not all that good at this sort of thing, but Stargate is feeling a little unfocused to me, theme-wise. What do you think?

(The Stargate theme song should probably be "I don't like spiders and snakes, but that's not what it takes to love me." *g*)

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Would you like me to post this question in a couple of SG-1 communities?

How about this theme: "Don't expect societies on other planets to be like yours just because the people happen to be humans"?

If you want to link, go ahead. It would be interesting to get more opinions on the subject. :)

Don't expect societies on other planets to be like yours just because the people happen to be humans

I dunno -- it seems like most of the time, they're really quite similar. (S1 is so funny -- every planet is like a different period of Earth history. It's like Star Trek. "Today, we're on the ancient Rome planet. Tomorrow, the Gangster planet.")

(S1 is so funny -- every planet is like a different period of Earth history. It's like Star Trek. "Today, we're on the ancient Rome planet. Tomorrow, the Gangster planet.")

I started watching during the late reruns of S2, and still find the S1 DVDs tough to sit through. Star Trek, Sliders, like you're saying. I outgrew that stuff; I don't need to see it rehashed in another series.

I'm still a little stumped as to this whole fandom mythos of their brilliant S1-3 and crashing fall in S4. Sure, there were some changes, and I have issues with many of them, but I don't see it as an altogether *bad* thing for the show to shift gears a little.

I'm still a little stumped as to this whole fandom mythos of their brilliant S1-3 and crashing fall in S4. Sure, there were some changes, and I have issues with many of them, but I don't see it as an altogether *bad* thing for the show to shift gears a little.

Yeah, I'd agree. I really liked S4. And S5. They felt more mature to me. And S1 did leave me howling with laughter as often as not.

*sigh*

RDA once used the phrase "cosmic giddiness", and I guess that's a part of it.

I guess...it's sort of a show about explorers, and sort of a show about knowing your friends from your enemies, and sort of a show about These Guys Are Absolute Evil, No Really...but then, the writers can't be bothered keep track from week to week, so why should I?

I've never really thought about Stargate in terms of long-term themes, per se. This is partly because it will only drive me crazy, and partly because I've never really seen it as a show that *tried* for long-term, consistent themes. I've also been gradually coming to accept that none of the themes that exist in my head are in any sense reflected by the show I'm watching. There are some I could see hints of, but they're not really consistent, and none of them are done the way I'd do them. But then, it's probably good for everyone I'm not in charge of that show.

I'd never really thought about it like this until recently, then I got wondering if it was just that I couldn't tease out what the long-term themes were meant to be. I'm not always good at that sort of thing.

These Guys Are Absolute Evil, No Really

Yeah, and it's rather annoying! We've hardly had anything that would make them question that. I would think it would be an interesting thing to explore more deeply -- are they really justified in trying to exterminate the Goa'uld? But the show doesn't seem to want to pursue that. I suppose it's easier to have a Big Bad that's All Bad. It's just less interesting.

are they really justified in trying to exterminate the Goa'uld? But the show doesn't seem to want to pursue that. I suppose it's easier to have a Big Bad that's All Bad. It's just less interesting.

I've said many times in various venues that this whole insistence on good vs. evil is one of my least favorite aspects of this show--even more so, because it's completely unecessary, and none of their most effective villains have been Goa'ulds. It's hard enough to even take the Goa'uld seriously (and what do we do for a spin-off? EVEN MORE EVIL bad guys! Yeesh. No helping some people.)

Even if they can justify exterminating the Goa'uld in terms of their own survival--i.e., justify it in pragmatic if not moral terms (and I'm not sure they can)--I still want to hear about the complications thereof. There's tretonin for some Jaffa, but I can picture it being like the fall of Saigon or a U.N. pullout every time an SG team tries to leave a human planet, with dirt-poor people throwing their kids through the wormhole after them so they'll have a shot at a better life. There's also the whole issue of exploding belief systems everywhere they go, and the profound impact that has on a society. I could go on, but I'll just piss myself off, and you know what I'm talking about.

*sigh* And that's what fanfic is for.

"normalish people go into space. way! and blow shit up. way! and learn that other cultures can't really be arsed with us. way! so they blow some more shit up! and then they all do sex! way!"

ok, that last one was fic...

I think you have it there. *g*

My take is that it's about the difference that competent, brave, caring people can make, even (or especially) in the face of overwhelming odds.

Not anything very groundbreaking or unique, but I love a good heroic story... with adventure and things blowing up and deep bonds of friendship forged fighting the good fight.

Overall, I see the aliens and gates mainly as the mechanism for us to see SG-1 at work. In any individual episode there will also be themes of alien cultures and mind-control and love etc, but for all that they go to other planets, have snakes inside them, and ascend to higher life forms, we don't see a lot of just plain bizarre/incomprehensible cultures that the heroes really connect with. No real alien concepts incorporated into anyone's worldview.

I agree with this, and it's very like what

franzeska said below. It's about the people and the themes are personal, rather than planetary. Very useful, thank you!

This is true...but then, the character arcs on this show are never going to satisfy me. Well, nobody ever said Stargate was science fiction brilliance.

That's what I've got all those B5 DVDs for. :)

My first impression is that Stargate's theme is "life's complicated wherever you go". Every planet, every situation, everything that happens: it's not as simple as you, or they, would like to think. Also, that normal people are, well, normal, even in extraordinary situations, like being on another planet. Of course, I've only seen a dozen or so episodes, so that's not a final answer.

it's not as simple as you, or they, would like to think

That's a good point. It makes me think of TXF -- every small town holds a dark secret. :)

Yeah (um, TXF= The X-Files, right?)-- I don't know the X-Files well, but from the couple of episodes I've seen, some bits of Stargate have a lot in common with that. Paradise Lost, for example, has a big dose of "small town with a mystery" to it, if you replace "small town" with "peaceful planet". There's even more in common with Star Trek, though-- many Stargate plots I recognise from years of casual viewing of Star Trek. Some of them Star Trek did more than once. But Star Trek's themes are much more clearly exploration and discovery, with some fighting and soap opera thrown in, while Stargate has a) this "Goa'old = eeeeevil" thing that's not really sensical, and b) a less formal philosophy of exploration for scientific interest, prefering to dwell on exploration in the hope of gaining military advantage.

I'm rather inclinded to treat it like I do Smallville: to sit back and say "hey, pretty people, bang bang, let's read some fanfic where they go to bed together".

[reads some of the other comments]

You could be onto something with the "buddy show with extra buddies", of course. Jack-and-Daniel or Jack-and-Sam would make an ideal central pairing to a buddy show (which is why they're such popular fic pairings); Teal'c-and-Sam or Teal'c-and-Daniel or even Teal'c-and-Jack have similar powers, as do Teal'c-and-Sam.

I could get behind "It Sucks to be Daniel", too. Though "the American military are always right (even the grey guy's on our side)" and "you may not be in Kansas any more, but can you tell?" are both plausible alternatives.

I think it has team show theme numero uno: The team is everything. Wives, boyfriends, outside lives, guest stars of the week and laws of physics, morality and sense must all be sacrificed to the cheesy emotional unity of the team.

My favorite thing about Stargate is that I actually like all of the SG1 team members and the interactions between each pair. Regardless of who is running about with whom in a given episode, they are interesting together.

I think you're right about the team. I was looking for something on a grander level, but maybe it's not there. It's all a backdrop for the team. Like a buddy show with extra buddies. *g*

Ok, ok, I'll state it more pretentiously if you'd like: Friendship, not romantic love, is the most important and strongest thing in the universe, but you have to choose your friends well. Blah blah not even death blah.

Hee! When I said "grander level" I just meant more general and sweeping, not in bigger words. *g* Because this is a very personal theme. Which is good and fine. But it mostly just applies to the team itself and not all the things they do. The show doesn't seem to reach much beyond that.

Good point. I hadn't thought of it that way, but you're right. You can mix and match and you'll still get interesting reactions, spiffy dialog, and Jack O'Neill saying "I have to pee" in a pained and irritated voice.

Completely off-topic: I love the Solange userpic.

I think it's something like:

Ingenuity will win in the end, and whatever happens, we (humans) will go on, press forward, seek out new worlds and boldly go where the Goa'uld took us before.

The other theme is "No, no, Daniel doesn't really die."

The triumph of the human spirit!

Sometimes I think it is:

The American military knows best for the whole entire Earth so why don't you all just shut up and let us get on with this in secrecy.

Oh, ok, right. The other main theme of this series and most sci-fi series is "Hey, manifest destiny needn't stop with the West Coast!"

Things Are Not As They Seem.

Moreover, it Sucks to be Daniel.

Hee! Also:

All Your Loved Ones Will Either Die Or Get A Snake Put In Their Head

Hey, Rya'c's still alive.

Admittedly, he got a snake in his gut instead of his head. But he was supposed to! Completely normal!

Hey, Rya'c's still alive.

Don't remind me! I hate that kid, though I don't know why. I suppose I should blame Teal'c for being an absentee father.

Well, the actor's not very good, which doesn't help.

Nonsense. It's their own fault for trying to be side characters in a buddy show with extra buddies (as it were).

Maybe "We are not alone"?

"Always watch the skies!" *g*

Hmmm - themes of SG...

The inevitable conflict between the pragmatism of the military and the idealism of others?

Never, ever trust politicians because even the few good ones will fuck you over somewhere along the line? *g*

No matter how much someone may look human you can't predict their reactions?

How much right do you have to interfere in another culture?

Geeks will inherit the earth?

Playing war games with the universe can lead to unexpected alliances which means you end up in a worse situation than you started with?

Guns aren't the answer to everything?

There were some hints in early episodes about the bigger issues and not a simple good v evil theme but these, unfortunately seem to have been lost.

(The Stargate theme song should probably be "I don't like spiders and snakes, but that's not what it takes to love me." *g*)

Snicker. Now I've been humming this to myself all day!

How much right do you have to interfere in another culture?

That's one they *should* be dealing with, but I don't really feel like they do.

Guns aren't the answer to everything?

This reminds me of the A-Team, whose theme seems to be "guns solve every problem and nobody ever gets hurt". *g*

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Stargate and deep thought.

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Themes of SG

Re: Themes of SG