prillalar | blahblahblah feedbackcakes

blahblahblah feedbackcakes

There's one thing I don't think I've seen mentioned each time the feedback discussion surfaces. (And didn't we just have it within the last six months? I thought the cycle was supposed to be annual.)

As well as all the "feedback is payment for writing" or "feedback is a thank-you for writing" or "feedback is a precious and undeserved gift", for an author, feedback is kind of like market research. It's like being a retailer and looking at your sales figures to see what's moved the best.

I don't imagine that most of us cold-bloodedly look at our stories and tabulate the feedback and then make our to-be-written lists based on that. But still, if you have more things on your to-be-written list than you can ever write and all other things are equal, you're more likely to consider the type of story you think will get a good response. After all, why share a story that most people don't want to read?

If you spend three months writing a story and it gets X feedback and you spend an hour writing a drabble and it gets X feedback or even X/2 feedback, you might think twice about spending three months on your next story. Substitute pairings or fandoms or subject matter for length there and it still holds.

So, when you send feedback, you're not just saying "I liked that story", you're saying "write more stories like that one".

That is my theory, it is mine, and belongs to me and I own it, and what it is too.

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wow...that's depressing!

But shouldn't you take the length of the feedback into account? B/c I much more easily respon to short fics, b/c I *can*, i.e., longer stories require more in depth feedback. So are 3 long and detailed fb worth 10 "Yeah! I liked it"???

I just checked my stats (web hits vs feedback) and noticed that my response rate for my cat pictures is actually better than that for any of my stories.

Therefore, I'm going to stop writing fics and just take more pictures of my cat.

Actually, I've always thought that was true myself. There are a couple of authors who I suspect do just that, ie gauge the response and tailor the fics to meet the needs and expectations of their demographic. It is certainly one possible explanation for the endless variants on a single theme that certain authors write. They know from experience that that type of fic (first time, with sweet, happy ending, an OMC who is treatening to steal away the hero's twu wuv, sparking jealousy, alpha male behavior and eventual declarations of twu wuv followed by achingly tender First time sex--and no, I'm not thinking of any writers in particular ;-)) will sell and will elicit maximum positive feedback from the sheep contingent of fandom. OK, maybe I'm being overly cynical; maybe the're just lazy, talentless hacks who lack imagination.

For myself, I find that lack of feedback doesn't affect what I write, but it could have an impact on whether or not I'll share it. I will always write what I want to write, and I'll post it/announce it on my LJ, but I find I'm less inclined these days to announce it to the lists since people on the lists have shown little interest in my fics. My output hasn't changed, but the way I view its distribution.

I didn't mean for this to be depressing! Just that feedback affects an author's future work.

So are 3 long and detailed fb worth 10 "Yeah! I liked it"?

Sure. :) Actually, to make the math easier, let's say it/s 1::3. So, say we go with the 3 months == X, and 1 hour == X/2. The longer story gets more indepth feedback, so we'll bump it up to 3X feedback equivalent.

Now if a story takes three months to write, how many hours is that? Let's say 6 hours a week. Even if you don't write for all that time, you spend a lot of time thinking about the story as well. So 24 hours per month makes 72 hours all told.

72h/3X for the long story give you 24 hours per X. The drabble is 2 hours per X.

So, you can see why it's fun to write drabbles. :) This *really* isn't meant to come off all bitter. More than anything, I think it explains why drabbles and flashfiction are so popular right now. You can often get a lot more return for your time, feedbackwise.

So long as it satisfies you creatively. :)

Formula romance fic. :) Perhaps they just read too many Sweet Dreams in juniour high.

For me, I find that writing drabble and short pieces can help me when I'm working on something longer, because the feedback boost will help me stick to the longer story. If that makes sense. I always write what I want to write, except that I just don't have *time* to write all I want to write, so one has to make decisions somehow.

Really, I think all I seem to be saying is "love me, I must have love!" How needy and pathetic. :)

nono, not you...the fact that we're implicitly saying "write more stories like this"...but i think you may be right (looks at stack of looong stories i've been meaning to feedback :-)

Oooh, interesting post.

But still, if you have more things on your to-be-written list than you can ever write and all other things are equal, you're more likely to consider the type of story you think will get a good response.

Not in my case. Possibly because I never have more things on my to-be-written list than I can ever write. *g* The stories I'm most likely to write and share are stories that I know are fully realized, complete stories, no matter their theme or content; I hide the stuff I think is technically inferior. I will say, though, that I give more consideration to how people will react to a story these days, not because I'm worried about getting a good response, but because I have a hard time finding the right lists and places to post some of the more difficult (= sad/troubling/thematically problematic) stories. No season six stories on AlphaGate, SG1HC folks don't like slash, people who read sgfic seem touchy about death stories, etc. It just goes on and on.

Also, I'm certain some people *do* tabulate their feedback and write what they're sure will get a response. I've seen people admit this on various lists.

So, when you send feedback, you're not just saying "I liked that story", you're saying "write more stories like that one".

That's absolutely true, and is the best argument for sending feedback I've ever heard. :-)

I like your theory and wish to subscribe to your views--do you have any pamphlets or other literature? *g*

So, when you send feedback, you're not just saying "I liked that story", you're saying "write more stories like that one".

Yeah, and sometimes people say exactly those words. At the same time, I haven't tried to write another story with the same pairing as in my (thus far) most popular one, largely because a) I'm not sure I have more to say about the pairing possibility, b) I'd be worried it would suffer in comparison, and c) I just haven't wanted to.

And the insta-feedback of a drabble or short ficlet is really seductive. It makes me feel less like I'm writing in a void, at times.

And, actually, taking your point a little more seriously, I was a bit dismayed by the positive feedback on An Eye For An Eye because it was so deliberately written to someone else's style, not at all the pairing or the type of story I would write on my own. And all these people saying, "Write a sequel!" and me thinking, "No. Frigging. WAY!"

I mean, of course I wasn't dismayed by getting positive feedback, but it made me feel as though I had hinted at promising something I really couldn't deliver, i.e. more stories in that vein.

I like your theory. It works. *g*

But still, if you have more things on your to-be-written list than you can ever write and all other things are equal, you're more likely to consider the type of story you think will get a good response. After all, why share a story that most people don't want to read?

This is so true. One of my best fanfic stories (by that I mean one I think represents some of my best writing) featured a very unpopular pairing and got very little feedback. I had a sequel in mind as I was writing it, but I can't really whip up any enthusiasm for working on it. From time to time I revisit the characters/situation in my mind, and I enjoy thinking about it, but I doubt I'll ever go to the trouble of writing and polishing and trying to make it into something I'd feel comfortable sharing with the public.

But still, if you have more things on your to-be-written list than you can ever write and all other things are equal, you're more likely to consider the type of story you think will get a good response. After all, why share a story that most people don't want to read?

Not for me. Of course, all of my stories are so similar it probably doesn't matter and I'm responding to that feedback impetus unconsciously, but I write the stories *I* want to read. Granted, being an OTP type shipper, I tend to write in the same pairings over and over again, but I cannot recall consciously thinking, "Hmm... that got a lot of feedback, I should write another just like it."

I remember thinking, "Man, why doesn't *this* get as much feedback as *that*?" but that's after the fact.

Having puttered along on 2-3 feedback emails a story for almost two years, I can honestly say that while I adore and crave feedback, it's never been the driving force behind my writing.

You know, the problem I have with this theory is related to the one I had about the This Is The Story I Always Tell that was going around a while back.

"Write more stories like that one" gets weird when the readers' definitions of "like that one" are different from the author's.

I mean, they *could* mean "write more stories with clever wordplay, buried references, and odd twists", but generally they mean "with that character" or "with blowjobs" or something like that. And...generally...I don't know what the hell my argument is here. Something something, brickbat lingerie.

Possibly because I never have more things on my to-be-written list than I can ever write. *g* The stories I'm most likely to write and share are stories that I know are fully realized, complete stories, no matter their theme or content; I hide the stuff I think is technically inferior.

I think we have different kinds of lists. :) Mine is all my ideas, all thrown in. Some are more complete than others.

Also, I'm certain some people *do* tabulate their feedback and write what they're sure will get a response. I've seen people admit this on various lists.

Now that I think about it, I remember someone back in TXF saying that when she felt like she needed a boost, she'd write a sappy MSR under a different pseud and just watch the feedback roll in.

I like your theory and wish to subscribe to your views--do you have any pamphlets or other literature? *g*

Just on brontosauruses. *g*

And the insta-feedback of a drabble or short ficlet is really seductive. It makes me feel less like I'm writing in a void, at times.

So true. It was doing drabbles and contrelamontre that got me through my last long project. But I decided to lay off them till the end of January, because I thought they were taking away from what I'm working on now. It's a tricky balance.

I mean, of course I wasn't dismayed by getting positive feedback, but it made me feel as though I had hinted at promising something I really couldn't deliver, i.e. more stories in that vein.

I feel that way sometimes too, especially when I dabble in a fandom that I really don't plan to jump right into. Writing just one story can seem like a tease, I guess.

As a reader solely (well, mostly) I'd make two points: if I send feedback at all it means that I'm reading your pairing, so my fb means more 'I liked your take on that dynamic' or 'your writing rocks my world' or 'funny!' (I have a funny!kink). I'm likely to send fb when I'm happy for the characters at the end of the story. That might just be a me thing.

Also, definitely some writers base what they write on the amount of fb they get for particular stories. This is evident in LJ where I've seen actual polls asking 'What should I write next?'!

I'm curious: how often do established writers get fb for old stories? I occasionally send emails out praising old favorites and wonder if the various flashback! communities and

crack_van have increased the proportion of fb for older fic. ???

One of my best fanfic stories (by that I mean one I think represents some of my best writing) featured a very unpopular pairing and got very little feedback. I had a sequel in mind as I was writing it, but I can't really whip up any enthusiasm for working on it.

Yes, that's it exactly. There will always be things that I will write regardless, but certainly not everything.

Not for me. Of course, all of my stories are so similar it probably doesn't matter and I'm responding to that feedback impetus unconsciously, but I write the stories *I* want to read. Granted, being an OTP type shipper, I tend to write in the same pairings over and over again, but I cannot recall consciously thinking, "Hmm... that got a lot of feedback, I should write another just like it."

I do think that it's more of an unconscious than conscious thing -- an influence, whether we think about it or not.

What if your OTP wasn't a popular one? Say what you most wanted to write was Trelawny/Hooch, and there was very little fandom support for it. Do you think you'd still write as many stories about them?

Not trying to badger you, just curious what you think.

"Write more stories like that one" gets weird when the readers' definitions of "like that one" are different from the author's.

True, but most of the time, the readers don't explicitly state that. So of course it's the author's own interpretation about what they like.

All I'm saying is that if I had two fandoms that interested me about equally and when I wrote in one I got X feedback and from the other 3X feedback, I'd be more likely to write in the second fandom. It's not even necessarily that I'm thinking, "Must maximize the feedback." I might also be thinking, "Hmm, I seem to be able to write better in Fandom B" or "there's a bigger audience/support group for Fandom B".

Also, definitely some writers base what they write on the amount of fb they get for particular stories. This is evident in LJ where I've seen actual polls asking 'What should I write next?'!

I'd forgotten about those polls! I confess, they irk me. It almost seems like a way of getting feedback for a story you haven't even written yet. *g*

I'm curious: how often do established writers get fb for old stories?

I think this depends a lot on how you're archived and how old is old. Some does trickle in, both from my own website and from other places. This obviously happens more often for fandoms I'm still in, since a new story might send a reader to my site to read more of the same.

(Actually, since I put up comment forms on my site, I've got a lot more residual feedback.)

What if your OTP wasn't a popular one?

Hee!

You're asking the wrong person, as I feel my HP OTP *is* an unpopular, unsung one. *snicker*

Or, rather, the fic it inspires has a bad reputation within the fandom, even though half of HP online fandom agrees that Remus/Sirius is likely canon.

I tend to cast myself as an underdog/oppressed party no matter what I write, so I don't really think it'd be any different.

I went for almost two years in XMM fandom getting 1-3 feedback emails on everything - the Logan/Rogue (the pairing that ate XMM pre-X2), the gen, the bits of Logan/Scott slash I wrote - so even though my pairing was popular, my stories weren't, necessarily. But the fic produced in the pairing was mostly godawful and I wasn't being fed the stories I wanted to read, so I wrote them myself.

I managed with very little fandom support for quite a while, and only gave up when I didn't have any new stories to tell.

So, I think I *would* continute to write, regardless. I mean, obviously, 3 responses is more than none, and if there had been dead silence I might have stopped, but it doesn't take much to keep me going.

This is evident in LJ where I've seen actual polls asking 'What should I write next?'!

Having just conducted such a poll, I found myself somewhat surprised at the results, but I'm still working on the stories I was working on before I asked, and the one I've worked on most is not the one that got the most votes.

I just find it interesting to see what other people are interested in. But the fact that 14 people wanted to read the "Remus shows Sirius who's on top" story hasn't inspired me to open that one up, any more than the fact that only four people wanted BBB!Remus has stopped me from frantically trying to finish it.

I mean, recently, the most feedback I got was for a story where Sirius molests Harry. I'm not writing that again if I can help it. Is it a good story? Yeah. Is it some of my best writing? Probably. But it's not a topic I want to revisit, and I won't, unless another story idea strikes, regardless of how much glowing feedback the story received.

HP chan has really come of age of late (ha!). It is practically unavoidable and fans clamour for more. I don't mind it myself, but note that many of the premises resemble porn stories from the Nifty archive. I don't think I've read yours though, so I'm going to go give it a peek!

chan

I really don't like that term. I don't know why, but I don't. Nothing to do with your comment, just various discussions going around, and the term itself just bothers me.

don't think I've read yours though, so I'm going to go give it a peek!

Enough (http://www.unfitforsociety.net/musesfool/enough.htm) and Let Nothing You Dismay (http://www.unfitforsociety.net/musesfool/letnothingyoudismay.htm). They go together.

Thanks for the links. You know, 'obliviate' adds a whole new element (potential) to child abuse stories in HP that I hadn't really considered before. Your stories really brought that idea to the front. I mean, yeah, Harry's somewhat protected by Remus's spell, but then again, so is Sirius. On many levels, that just isn't right, although the case could be made that Sirius himself 'isn't right' (mentally, that is).

I like the subtext to the stories that the wizarding world chooses guardians for Harry that are totally not in the boy's best interests (the Dursleys, Sirius) and then does "work arounds" to make them fit. There is definitely a sense of wizarding selfishness both in the books and in the fanfic. Your stories explore this very subtly, delicately. I quite enjoyed them.

I mean, yeah, Harry's somewhat protected by Remus's spell, but then again, so is Sirius. On many levels, that just isn't right, although the case could be made that Sirius himself 'isn't right' (mentally, that is).

That's exactly what I was trying to do - both Remus and Sirius are culpable here - Sirius for the actual abuse, Remus for covering it up. I mean, maybe it's best for Harry to never remember it, I dunno, but for Remus to just keep obliviating them instead of taking active steps to protect Harry... it gives me the creeps, but I think it's in character.

And yeah, this Sirius is definitely not right in the head, but still, Harry, as the child, should come first, and Sirius should be given some help.

Glad you liked the stories, though. And that they did what I meant them to do. *g*

Well, both, really, although I don't prioritize what I write according to past feedback but according to stories I know people I like want to read (which I often learn by throwing snippets at them over AIM).

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