prillalar: (Default)
prillalar ([personal profile] prillalar) wrote2017-04-22 02:20 pm

YOI Multishipper Problems

[ Before the ramble (or vent) begins, some signal boosting:
+ [community profile] rareshipsonice - Yuri!!! on ICE Rare Pair fanwork exchange! Basically anything other than Yuuri/Victor and Otabek/Yuri. Currently in nominations.
+ [community profile] yurionicefans - YOI DW comm! ]

While working on some fic that doesn't involve any of these characters, I was listening to Steve Winwood (I'm an old) and Back In the High Life Again came on and I had a mini-breakdown over Chris/Victor, mainly from frustration that it's next to impossible to write them post-canon.

I love Yuuri/Victor but I'm a multishipper and Chris/Victor is my favourite Victor ship. (Nishigori/Yuuri is my other main ship, just to get even more impossible.) And I've never been in a fandom before where the juggernaut was so juggernaut-y and soulmate-y and canon-y that to write any other end-game pairing with either of them is nearly unthinkable.

I don't want to go canon-divergent; it's not my thing. Am I doomed to never being able to write what I want? Or is there perhaps some way to break Yuuri and Victor up post-canon that I wouldn't have to spend more than about 25% of the Chris/Victor fic dealing with? (Victor dealing with it, I mean, not showing the break-up.)

I realise I will have to sign a waiver indicating I understand no one will read this fic. And that I may also be consigned to perdition. It might be worth it.

Okay, whining over, thinking begun.
yuuago: (Yuri on Ice - Phichit)

[personal profile] yuuago 2017-04-22 10:30 pm (UTC)(link)
Ooh, I didn't know about the DW comm! Thanks for linking that.

is there perhaps some way to break Yuuri and Victor up post-canon that I wouldn't have to spend more than about 25% of the Chris/Victor fic dealing with?

Well, from my perspective - their relations, as we're shown in the show, go down rather quickly. And they don't seem to be very good at communicating. So a breakup seems like a reasonable thing to imagine happening.

As for not having to spend more than 25% of the story dealing with it - for me, it would be adequate to devote maybe a paragraph to it; say that it happened, maybe give a few details, and then move on. Setting it a couple of years after the breakup can also be useful, give things some distance. If I'm reading something for the A/C pairing, while A/B is the soulmate-y juggernaut, I'm not there for some long detailed explanation about how A/B broke up - just referring to it happening is enough. Get it over with and move on to the A/C that I opened the fic for, you know?

'Course, I don't know what you have in mind for this particular story, and I'm mostly speaking from experience with similar situations in another canon. But, yeah.
Edited 2017-04-22 22:31 (UTC)
marks: unce unce unce (Default)

[personal profile] marks 2017-04-22 10:38 pm (UTC)(link)
Set it a year after yuuri dies, I'm sure no one at all including me would have a problem with that!
marks: unce unce unce (Default)

[personal profile] marks 2017-04-23 12:35 am (UTC)(link)
AO3 Subscribers: -1

Hal: "How did that even happen?"
merit: (Archer)

[personal profile] merit 2017-04-23 12:31 am (UTC)(link)
I loled.
marks: unce unce unce (Default)

[personal profile] marks 2017-04-23 12:36 am (UTC)(link)
I'm a problem-solver.
Edited 2017-04-23 00:36 (UTC)
inkstone: chibi!Ace & chibi!Luffy from One Piece (better days)

[personal profile] inkstone 2017-04-22 10:55 pm (UTC)(link)
I agree with a lot of what [personal profile] yuuago says, but I definitely understand your dilemma. I don't know that I've ever seen the juggernaut ship be so juggernauty and canony before.

On the other hand, I am a huge advocate of writing fic that isn't on the well-worn path of fandom and canon, audience be damned.
merit: (Yuri on Ice Victor)

[personal profile] merit 2017-04-23 12:30 am (UTC)(link)
I'd, probably out of laziness, probably start a fic like that when they were already broken up. START WITH THE ANGST. And the flashbacks to any arguments they had if I felt the need. Icy meetings where they try to be civil but there's a lot of allusion to the arguments, the relationship they had, the efforts they have made to move on. Enter Chris, hanging over Victor. Possibly tracing the curve of Victor's ear with his tongue.

I'm pretty terrible at OTPs. I like to see what happens when characters clash! I develop preferences, but only read one pairing??

Followed the comm! I have been meaning to get involved more in communities, be the change and all that.
merit: (Yuri on Ice - Yuri)

[personal profile] merit 2017-04-23 01:11 am (UTC)(link)
I settled on the ear licking. Explicit gestures, elaborate tongue motions, grinding - the possibilities are endless! especially when you want to mess with your crush's ex.

Same! I have a fandom5k fic to finish but I should be to think of something to post while angsting over plot.

That's the problem with big fandoms! I've mostly been involved in tiny book fandoms of late so that was a pleasant surprise :)
merit: (Default)

[personal profile] merit 2017-04-23 02:19 am (UTC)(link)
Oh Yuuri. Though that would be an amusing element - who gets who after the breakup.

(Anonymous) 2017-04-23 05:06 am (UTC)(link)
"I need to know how and why"

hc: victor and chris used to be together, but they are young, etc. they break up over something and yuuri is victor's rebound fling. I find this to be canon compliant because (a) Chris can be interpreted as jealous over Yuuri and (b) I truly, madly, deeply don't buy it that a international star athlete would turn 27 without having a life and fun enough that a drunk loser humping his leg would turn into a revolutionary "OMG I was lost and lonely and had no inspiration and now I found you!" (which seems to be the main fanon interpretation of why they get together but which i find incredibly juvenile).

If Yuuri is Victor's rebound fling, it's normal for things between them to be very intense on Victor's part as he clings to what he imagines is happening in this new romance that was not happening between him and Chris. (It is normal for things to be intense on Yuuri's part because Yuuri is a fanboy).

It would also be normal for said rebound fling to come to an end, and for both Victor and Chris to come back together at a new stage of their professional lives and at a new level of maturity.

I am aware you mostly write short things whereas I'm essentially pitching you a novel, but you can totally drop the reader into the opening stages of the second time Chris and Victor get together and drop hints on the backstory as you go along.

moetushie: (yoi: victor shining eyes)

[personal profile] moetushie 2017-04-23 02:38 am (UTC)(link)
I'd read it. Although, yeah, not many people would. Outside the superheated bubble of Victuuri, the Yuri!!! On Ice fandom seems to act like any other sports anime fandom. Rarepairs don't exactly do well here, I say, as I'm currently knee-deep in a WIP about a minor sports anime character.

Anyway, I love Chris/Victor and I *can* see it working, post-Yuuri, although in my hc, it would pretty far along when they're both retired and are irascible old men (for the given value of old -- I mean, in canon a 25 and 27 year old are considered over the hill, yeesh), sitting around and judging young, obviously less talented and beautiful skaters. What has the sport come to?

After all, Victor and Yuuri's grand passion fizzled out a long time ago -- eros is never meant to last! -- and Chris, as observant as ever, makes his move?

But, whatever you chose, I'm sure it would be a great story, and worth telling. Even if not many people read it?

/also hi, hope you don't mind me subscribing to you & sorry if I'm being presumptuous
moetushie: Beaton cartoon - a sexy revolution. (Default)

[personal profile] moetushie 2017-04-23 03:28 am (UTC)(link)
I wonder who will age better, Chris or Victor?

That's an irresistible question. Probably Victor, except for his hairline problem. Chris looks like he tans, and that's not great for the skin!
moetushie: The Daily Bugle sounds the alarm. (everything is awful)

[personal profile] moetushie 2017-04-23 03:46 am (UTC)(link)
Maybe this is why late-life Chris/Victor is NEEDED. When Victor tells Chris that wrinkles are sexier than an eerily immovable plastic-looking face, maybe Chris will believe him!
moetushie: Beaton cartoon - a sexy revolution. (katharine hepburn)

[personal profile] moetushie 2017-04-23 05:13 am (UTC)(link)
Nice, nice.

(Anonymous) 2017-04-23 05:08 am (UTC)(link)
hairline problem = voting for shaved-head victor
moetushie: Beaton cartoon - a sexy revolution. (yoi: victuuri)

[personal profile] moetushie 2017-04-23 12:08 pm (UTC)(link)
Oooh, I used to think this was the obvious solution for a lot balding woes, but now I think it only works if you've god a good skull shape & also strong bone structure to carry it off. And while I'm sure Victor's skull is 100% perfectly shaped, idk, bone structure is ... hard ... to figure with an animated character.

What if he shaves it all off and hates it?? LOL, Victor.
moetushie: Asami channels Rosie the Riveter. (we can do it!)

[personal profile] moetushie 2017-04-23 12:59 pm (UTC)(link)
Ah, we're bringing the *real* angst this morning.
naraht: (Default)

[personal profile] naraht 2017-04-23 07:52 am (UTC)(link)
That's an irresistible question. Probably Victor, except for his hairline problem. Chris looks like he tans, and that's not great for the skin!

I hadn't thought this about Chris, but you're totally right. And he probably does it naturally, unlike orange Evan Lysacek.

If Victor is anything like John Cameron Mitchell, his face double, he ages hella well. If you think about it, he probably gets hardly any sun, living in Saint Petersburg and spending all his time training indoors.
moetushie: Beaton cartoon - a sexy revolution. (Default)

[personal profile] moetushie 2017-04-23 12:23 pm (UTC)(link)
Reading your comment around 6:03 AM my time, I thought you said that his face would double and thought it was unnecessarily harsh -- I mean, come on, he wouldn't lose that much hair!! But it was early in the morning and I can't read. :)

I'm thinking back to Heidi!Chris and realize his skin tone stayed pretty much the same. Hmm, idk then.
naraht: (Default)

[personal profile] naraht 2017-04-23 01:09 pm (UTC)(link)
Oh dear no, I'm not quite that mean to Victor. But I do think he's definitely balding.

Heidi!Chris could have precociously got into the self tanner, no?
moetushie: Beaton cartoon - a sexy revolution. (Default)

[personal profile] moetushie 2017-04-23 01:29 pm (UTC)(link)
He hit up the bronzer because he knew he'd be seeing his idol! Makes sense.
clawdine: (Default)

[personal profile] clawdine 2017-04-23 05:56 am (UTC)(link)
I'm laughing at the dead Yuuri option. I would read that.

I honestly think Viktor would be really sad if they broke up. But all wounds heal in time and all that. Actually just imagining the awkward silence is giving me a lump in my throat. As long as everyone is happy in the end though!
clawdine: (Aeris and Cloud: The End)

[personal profile] clawdine 2017-04-23 01:31 pm (UTC)(link)
Clearly, Chris gets Viktor an Americano because they're in America and Viktor, being Russian, drinks only tea and has never tasted the wonder of American coffee.

Viktor is enthralled by the bitterness of the drink, the barista's twinkling green eyes, and the feeling like he's just embarked on a new adventure. In the land of the free! Where he gets free coffee and easy smiles.

I would read devastated!Viktor in a heartbeat. :) (But will those be pretty or ugly tears?)
clawdine: (Angsty oranges lol)

[personal profile] clawdine 2017-04-23 01:54 pm (UTC)(link)
oh my god Hal. I want this to be an actual thing. WHY IS THIS NOT AN ACTUAL THING????
clawdine: (Default)

[personal profile] clawdine 2017-04-24 04:06 pm (UTC)(link)
Oh no. Oh noooooo. How did pretty-much-crack-Timmies-fic make me feel THINGS. I JUST??? VIKTOR!! LET CHRIS CUDDLE YOU IN BLANKIES AND DOUBLE DOUBLES.
mousapelli: (Tsukkisaurus)

[personal profile] mousapelli 2017-04-23 02:34 pm (UTC)(link)
"oh, god, I don't have an exit strategy for the coffeeshop AU "
naraht: (Default)

[personal profile] naraht 2017-04-23 07:49 am (UTC)(link)
I will be absolutely fascinated to see how you end up writing endgame Chris/Victor. I mean, I guess I'm an endgame Victor/Yuuri shipper, but I hesitate to say that because it implies being dogmatic and unwilling to read any other take on the situation, which I'm not.

Really it's not terribly difficult to imagine Victor and Yuuri falling apart in fairly short order. Maybe Victor burns out, faced with Yuuri's impossible expectations and the impossible task of coaching and competing simultaneously. Maybe that "let's end this" in Barcelona is just the start of a great deal of on-again, off-again angst. Maybe Victor thought they were engaged but Yuuri really didn't mean that at all (I disagree with this strongly as a canon interpretation but it can work quite well in fic). Maybe Victor really is as fickle and selfish as Yakov thinks, and entirely believes that he will worship Yuuri forever, but gets distracted after six months.

Maybe the fic just starts with Chris and Victor meeting in a bar somewhere and Victor shrugs and says "let's not talk about it tonight."

It's all good! And it baffles me how many people in the fandom are absolutely allergic to Chris/Victor. It must be too much mature Eros for teenage fans, or perhaps it's just because it's the only obvious threat to the juggernaut pairing.
moetushie: (nezumi)

[personal profile] moetushie 2017-04-23 01:02 pm (UTC)(link)
Aha, I remember that nonnie on FFA whose bugabear was untagged Chris/Victor. I don't think I've ever committed that particular sin, but you know, I'd rather earn that nonnie's wrath than disappoint anyone who was actually looking for Chris/Victor, not a line in a Victuuri fic where Victor briefly admires Chris' ass.
moetushie: (jimmy stewart)

[personal profile] moetushie 2017-04-23 01:39 pm (UTC)(link)
I feel like getting the nuances of tagging is hard when there's no clear consensus on what to tag and why. My own rule of thumb is to ask if people will be disappointed if I did/did not tag for something. It's tricky though and I'm not always sure I get it right.

(HDU Victor's admiring gaze at Chris's ass is lingering and not in any way brief.)

naraht: (Default)

[personal profile] naraht 2017-04-23 01:22 pm (UTC)(link)
I can never tell with FFA whether it's one very noisy person or a strongly shared opinion, but yeah. I confess that I can't understand how you can ship a pairing so strongly that you can't deal with the suggestion that someone may have briefly admired the looks of another person.

Hell, the canon has untagged Chris/Victor. How else can you interpret "sexy on and off the ice"?
clawdine: (Merlin repressed!)

[personal profile] clawdine 2017-04-23 01:33 pm (UTC)(link)
They totally fucked.
naraht: (Default)

[personal profile] naraht 2017-04-23 01:35 pm (UTC)(link)
Without a doubt.
ineptshieldmaid: Language is my playground (Default)

[personal profile] ineptshieldmaid 2017-04-23 02:01 pm (UTC)(link)
I confess that I can't understand how you can ship a pairing so strongly that you can't deal with the suggestion that someone may have briefly admired the looks of another person.

I don't know but these people read my fic and were Not Happy. I had some who were willing to sign up to read a Chris/Viktor/Yuri threesome, but freaked the fuck out when the possibility of Chris/Yuri without Viktor participating was discussed. SELFISH, the cried. How could I make Yuri so selfish? And, strangely, they thought he was being selfish vis-a-vis Chris, as well as Viktor. I don't even know what was going on there.
moetushie: Kate Kane and Renee Montoya, shoulder kisses. (kate + renee (shoulder kisses))

[personal profile] moetushie 2017-04-23 02:11 pm (UTC)(link)
I feel like there's at least two, unless there's some sameanoning going on. But whoever they are, they are very ... persistent. Also, loud.

I confess that I can't understand how you can ship a pairing so strongly that you can't deal with the suggestion that someone may have briefly admired the looks of another person.

*has traumatic flashbacks to the Free! fandom, even though I wasn't even a part of it at the time* It's ... wild, but it seems like that's what happens.

Victor is canonically v. supportive of his friends' sexiness. That's something I really love about him.
naraht: (Default)

[personal profile] naraht 2017-04-23 01:25 pm (UTC)(link)
Victor probably was that fickle and selfish at the beginning of canon, but he's matured a lot.

Agreed. But I think the thing is that there are a lot of interpretations I don't buy, but would be willing to go along with for the sake of a good fic. Maybe I'm unusual in that, I don't know.

(Also, I will never, ever be over Victor's face when Yuuri is buying the rings. Oh my god.)

So glorious, and I'm such a sucker for emotionally vulnerable Victor. I'm not proud.

I didn't realize Chris/Victor was anathema to so many people!

As I said to Moetushie, it's not entirely clear to me whether it's one very vocal person or a widely shared opinion, or something in between, but it does seem likely that it's a backbutton for a lot of people. Beyond the interference with the juggernaut pairing, Chris managed to put people off during his first appearance, and ep 10 doesn't seem to have made up for it in some people's eyes.
ineptshieldmaid: Amidala (Star Wars - Amidala)

[personal profile] ineptshieldmaid 2017-04-23 12:56 pm (UTC)(link)
(here via a tumblr reblog chain)

I don't have an answer to this question but I would READ THAT FIC.

And your description of the juggernaut is... yup. I got a ton of weird pushback on a Chris/Viktor/Yuuri fic because it had strong Chris/Viktor and Chris/Yuuri sidelines - at one point in the fic the possibility of Chris/Yuuri being a thing in its own right was raised, and wow, did that ever go down badly with some people.
ineptshieldmaid: Language is my playground (Default)

[personal profile] ineptshieldmaid 2017-04-23 02:08 pm (UTC)(link)
I love Chris/Yuuri almost as much as Chris/Victor, seriously, and could see that as endgame quite easily.

I think my problem is I don't really... do endgame shipping. 'Could this be a stable long-term option' is just not a question I ask myself. Occasionally I go 'noooo the fuck that is not a good idea', but, well, that was my response to Viktor/Youri and I seem to have coped.

I'm more about love triangles than poly or causal three-ways, but either way Chris makes everything more interesting.

Even the poly shipping in this fandom is really... heavily reliant on the juggernaut and its extremely one-true-love troping, I think? Like. You get casual three-ways that are No Threat To The Ship, or you get poly ship arcs that still focus on Viktor/Yuri or the triad, but not so much on the other spokes. It's very, very strange.

People are weird about fic, seriously! But I guess I am too. :)

I am very weird about fic, and a chronic rarepair-er, but this fandom is Really Quite Odd, I swear.
ineptshieldmaid: Christophe's butt (Yuri on Ice) (yoi chris' butt)

[personal profile] ineptshieldmaid 2017-04-24 03:55 pm (UTC)(link)
Mostly because while I was finishing up the Chris/Georgi arc, I was thinking about them both being at the point they might retire and how that transition to the next stage of life might look.

Oooh I should catch up on that, shouldn't I? I read the first instalment or two and then got distracted.

No Threat to the Ship sounds like the attitude of the majority of fandom.

Part of my problem seems to be that I have a much higher expectation of what a relationship can endure. Including like, *checking out other people*. And so on.

It's great to find other fans who don't feel the same way. :)

I suspect you might enjoy this fic:
The comments are 80% people going 'AAARGH YES YOU'RE RIGHT THIS SHIP IS A DISASTER' and 20% people being very upset at Yuuri being portrayed as less than a total cinnamon roll.
pkoceres: (Default)

[personal profile] pkoceres 2017-04-27 05:32 am (UTC)(link)
Popping in late to say I would read the hell out of that story. I definitely agree that there's a basis for Chris/Victor in canon, and I'd love to see your take on it.

And I've never been in a fandom before where the juggernaut was so juggernaut-y and soulmate-y and canon-y that to write any other end-game pairing with either of them is nearly unthinkable.
I feel this in my soul, omg. Juggernaut OTPs seem to be in vogue right now.

(Also, thanks for the links!)
pkoceres: (Chibi me art)

[personal profile] pkoceres 2017-04-29 04:21 am (UTC)(link)
Oh, no pressure intended! :) They're such a fun couple (Chris is such a ham) but I'm perfectly content to wait.

I hadn't heard of ACCA, but I googled it. Looks interesting!
king_touchy: Yuri and Victor shopping (shopping)

[personal profile] king_touchy 2017-04-28 08:04 pm (UTC)(link)
I don't want to go canon-divergent; it's not my thing.

Damn, that's starting with a high base score. *admiration* But I sure look forward to reading.

This post and comments are gold. And I'm glad about the new YOI dw comms. Hopefully rec posts will start cropping up, because after cannonballing into Check Please! fic for the past couple weeks, I could really go for some fresh YOI, especially the rarer pairs. Yeah, sure, I could go trolling through tags, but I don't have the energy (or not quite desperate enough) to slush-read fic to find a gem.